History Repeating: A Conversation with Artist Ori Gersht and Curator Al Miner

Uploaded by thejewishmuseum on 03.10.2012

good evening
welcome to the jewish museum and
this conversation
between Ori Gersht and Al Miner
I'm Norman Kleeblatt, im chief curator here
and i'm pleased to be able to co-host with art is this conversation between
the curator and an artist of the latest show on the block of the eastern
this evening is a strike while the iron is hot approach we've captured both
curator and artist just one week after the opening
uh... or a curse history for key didn't
uh... exhibition which open on oldest twenty eighth the
museum of fine arts in boston
the exhibition or interest history repeating is the first comprehensive
first work it include several photographs which have never before been
and is accompanied by a major monograph
published by the end
with the latest digital technology
first worked the way to clear it is it's
sources ranging from nineteen th century romantic landscape painting to the
which in view his work with a tension between beauty in violence
memory and history
with twenty-five works including large-scale photographs and films the
date from the late nineteen ninety's to the president
first examines the evolving relationship between cultural political and art
i know that some of you in this room and i've heard it have already been to see
the exhibition
others uh... like myself
are booking reservations email monday is another event
we get the jewish museum have a wonderful history with the artist and
we've admired and collected his work for more than a decade and it's actually
exactly a decade
uh... his first work do came into the collection
we're thrilled that one of the
four works in our collection poem granite
is currently featured in the an f_a_a_ show
and also in the recent new york times article about that
show anchors curse photograph olive ten from two thousand four
uh... is
upstairs from the third floor
galleries currently on
so i'm happy to turn the podium over to you i don't mind hearts executive
director of the party is will tell you a bit more about the forthcoming programs
of that organization and formally introduce auriane
hi everyone and welcome
practically camels first official exciting night of the art world post
so and thank you to the jewish museum for uh... co-hosting this with us but
couldn't be a better venue to present uh... talk like this that alan i spoke
about doing another two years ago
uh... which use the online long-time
uh... sometime or were finally here
unlike norman said my name is now trying to send the director of art is
uh... nonprofit organization based in new york l_a_ in tel aviv
uh... and we support and promote contemporary israeli artists
for the last eight years sartre is has created opportunities for cultural
dialogue thru our monthly public programs and lecture series
we've supported hundreds of times that are deceptive little moments in their
careers that's my daughter
freeware grant program and professional development initiatives
uh... we've built bridges between the international art world's through our
semiannual annual research trips israel which claudia golden new director of
this museum at this one
uh... and we provide important resources on israeli arts for our website ideas
contemporary dot org uh... so please visit and
find out more
uh... just quickly a couple of upcoming events uh...
you know they were doing a talk with kayla brockman who is the next
representative of israel yes
biennial twenty thirteen
here in new york we're going to do a talker uh... with the legendary graphic
designer david tactile cover which release about the amassed so please
comments in october
uh... we are participating in uh... and art fair in l_a_ called art platform
and coming soon
next june word aren't doing our second collector trip to israel so
for those of you who want to visit israel through the lens of art
athletes have
and the ability to uh... make a contribution freeze uh... come and see
me and i can tell you more about it
uh... so now about korean al man you'll hear them speak
thief and beautiful work
or a cash received an m and photography from the real college apart london
and to be a m photography film and video from the university of westminster
christians had numerous solo exhibitions internationally most recently
this storm is what we call progress at the imperial war museum
midnight moments a large-scale public installation in the heart of times
square in new york
lost in time at the santa barbara museum of art and falling petals of c_r_t_
calorie new york
animals carry in los angeles napa county tadi
uh... al minor is that the assistant curator of contemporary at the museum of
fine arts in boston
prior to the m_s_a_
in boston minor worked at the first one museum and sculpture garden in
washington d_c_
where he curated major projects and commissions by artists dan graham
yoko ono completed palermo
minors the recipient of numerous fellowships
and as a practicing artists as well
please join me in welcoming or a m al
thank you hal and uh... source thank you to the jewish museum for having us this
is our first dog and pony show
of what will be i think long exterior siding series public appearances
help will be great
uh... and it's true that for two years we've been talking about this and or and
i have been talking for
about sametime about this exhibition that we did and what it would look like
we would communicate the breath of his work through
events like this but also through the exhibition to people
you know his work a little because they've seen it smaller presentations
okay x
or maybe using or his work for the first time
um... the sliding fee right now behind me is a photograph by oracle bookmarks
and i think it's both
pivotal moment in this career it's a seminal image for him it represents a
lot of what we're going to talk about tonight
but they also to me sort of illustrates what the inside of the ordher sprain my
looks like
or e has in mind that is constantly working the gears always turning he is
extremely well read intellectually engaged but what i love about your ears
how intuitive for processes at the same time
and i see a piece like bookmarks
that subtlety of your message is right there on the few guys notice at the top
on the left there's a rope black books
i'm with red spines and the marks are pulling
is this a shot in sarajevo and it was a time for or in the late nineties when
his career as we know it really began
when we talk about history repeating what does that mean i think initially in
terms of our first conversations i thought there was a fairly
straightforward relationship between or in the past but she always engages with
but it very quickly became more of a story of histories
of different times in
you know in the past uh... different vents in the past of things that have
affected him asset
and his identity and certainly things that affected our entire culture so all
to you as
will examine some of those different histories and how they're illustrated by
his work
i think that
the personal working may korea sometimes the most moving thing for me a lot of
an extreme emotional contact to what you're making tickling my body of work
or is always engaged orchestrate was will talk about that or more later but i
bring up this image by going up to show up kind of counterpoint to what you do
which is to deal sometimes a difficult subject matter but in a way that is much
more indirect
um... this is another work but you're the mountain which is
again i'm really important image that some so much up in in a way some of the
same subject matters that quayle print but you would never know that looking at
what seems like
a peaceful almost quiet moment will you tell us where this is an
how it came to be
just want to say that the uh...
all the work that the produce there is always
and so little
narrative the context realized the world
but there is dot the side of haiti's stands
if the as usual respond
that pain almost formal
and and
i'm using the medium photography
and photography centuries old it is
relying on
subject matters that
existed in front of the lands soul photography can never
the peaked
pure obstruction an exit from the mental different from painting
and in this respect photography is always somehow
and route to two
the world that is out there and
for that reason became of insignificant very important tool to recall the story
multum time
i think that my the necrosis in the wear work clothes and i'm trying to
pulled attention some sort of dialectic between dot then something image
and then
the narratives that unfold as it contained within the same age
and anime
one of the things that the interesting needs are
i can
create the separation and suspense
so when the view is that the approach into a massive
one experience and slowly is some knowledge or understanding about the
and full to manage out then you should experience dot of transforming now
and some sultry off relationship that uh... existing between
the you'll visual middling will experience
and then all knowledge and preconceptions
and forming our experiences and from that moment d
kind of fame
formal response
can never retell can never
regain the saint kitts purity
talking about the static no work
diesel spot of fig jam is that they be together we say number and it was my
to win pickup truck and mountains into burial famed village proposal
and nova's fathers about dole of course there is an as a bully and it wasn't we
and worked on the safety of two goals are for very long time it's almost came
by chance
actually was planning to drive to another real support
and when
to do something that they have in mind and when i was working on the same
we looked at the map into southern look at the moment that it was very close to
these particular region
who told her life she name wanted
to go on the nvc
and a so we decided that we will expound upstream and by chance when i arrive to
when we arrive to poland i realize that that's what my driving license was
supposed to renting a car and drive so
which change everything around them we took a night train from crop of
to uphold
and a and b_ six parents really set diverse enough
and the work start on that from the november opposite except the grandfather
will role to canada
there too
in its entirety before
and a m
we met some people around the falcons it took us to the and ariel fame of course
of the chrome and every evening we read
and these documents at the grand for the rule
and based on
on those readings we kind of fame this
begun to explore
there was a fundamental in contrast because on the one hand we arrive to a
very pastoral village in february
and then
everything was saying so tranquil
it looked like cain scenery from may of brutal painting by protocol
the stories that appeared in this particular place sixty of the new york
and and
horrendous and a part of pete wilson
numbers father game my father in law
as a child find himself
over two years
hiding in
peaked in the ground like it great spending
amended defense wherein dispel something
ip in the close win
you walk in this landscape give one experience when you read about things
that happened there
he will candice landscape in
of sunday addicts
expense off those places shift a great deal
one of the shows that at least
wees com always photography is all day photograph because the come a little
restaurant called what isn't fun to fit so
out tonight
refit even the dip in sixty years earlier
and when im actually exiting in all walking displacement in in in
and prison
and then
what they start to do is to follow the same comfy visual
approach a textile stop begun to spoke to his earlier
and then
i start to overexposed the film to live
but doing these delight stock to raise the the images
the photographs austin representing those particular places but those full
almost moved into the realm of obstruction
and i saw it as some sort of fusion between
my psychological
state that is projecting on the landscape
and then
the landscape itself that the lens of the country's absorbing
and the fusion between those tools states between projecting an absorbing
creating images
related to reality looked at the same time removed from me
for public quickly to the phoenix this is a mountains that they actually the
beginning of the war in the gym on the right to be stricken
together with the group affair ukrainian collaborator
they dot to
pete's the top out twenty meter square each
and then they in cold
the jewish people that lived in this village to come up
ends the hemalatha their own
two thousand about fifty percent of than population of the village
and they've begun to shoot and push them into those peeps
and the body fell upon the chodo one bullet was dedicated for each person
and a m
my father indoors on his way up where it with his mom and his brother where and
at german officer shot at the time to go back into the house
and there is a life what's the
and most of the most talking about these for years about these big mountain
and and so when we arrived at the first thing that naga wanted to do is to find
amount and then we went there
excellence it's almost like a heel it's very small in modest
but the listed this is a memory of fame five-year-old child and a m
it was interesting to bring baker these photographs tui minutes the festive
everyday theodore
and pain
off the spectacle of memory
and as as much as useful tool if he's up struck
for a mix of steel
and historical document because it is a photograph and it is rejecting
to him to a truth
and i knew that something i think that's an online for work or is this
idea that camera doesn't just
record the truth that the decisions you make visually become metaphors for
memory memory
fails but also
you know is successful
if we then look at that region on that trip and how important this personal
stories for you
we get to the first
projected fill the efforts of the first large work i'm which is called the
forest and was shot in the same area
it's not a completely dissimilar story that's being told same regions in people
uh... but what in this case you know just film gave you
that photography does and how do you think
the choice to use film for this project
gives the viewer something else in terms of telling the same story in any way
i think that then
one of the thing that
you've always faced with photography that it's a
it's looking day here now
in this eternal frame
and those of you know you can never escape this moment
witness the policy of contract upset to create photographed
that time
freeing themselves from the particularity ofthe place or time
so the photograph
he fought the buffet often is is very
completing its evidence and date of many of my photograph are becoming almost
ephemeral about these
places the moment it is very difficult for the viewer to to grovel to get the
tangible crippled
and with the film it's a very different experience i mean
e cinemax working exactly the opposite way
where you can never fix a moment
every phrase constantly slipping away
and what they did with these films oppose actually
presented in conjunction with the photograph
i tried to make it is is shock
is saying
kind of fame
quantico most bankable is it's possible to most of the stomped the foot of the
you know style and
disarming his film
he's saying
and is better for a rich was a very a few days
date uses of
e is if
xoxo came into being
but also
reacting against each other so the samples troubling fall
the one st into the silence
incumbent ruby to silence base of the photograph
there is something about the about the films that creates rubin their inane
to relationship between interest in the passage of time and some
that it's creating
i think it's very different emotional experience i wanna play a clip to the
people sort of get a sense of what this is like
and sound is something that is so important to you
in this case the sounds of reaches a crescendo that something you can explore
another phone so that some let's experience the christian duty
art allison
that were spare
ears for down now i want to show a different idea right away that
again deals with the subject of the holocaust is
emotional but not necessary to do the departure because
this is an based directly on your own family's experiences someone who is a
very close relationship with and it's one of the
few instances really where you bring the human figure and face into your work
goddesses or is this recent dual channel peacefully dance for me
the uh... what
where world one
so here we really need your tour
isn't necessarily someone you know well
name doesn't appear in the title but i think that instantly as viewers we can
connect to her as some sort of emotional connection
that becomes a lot from not only to stir face and the story of many years useless
told him that visual aid
very much in the way you para with the landscape and you move her in and out
joins us live who she is
and how you came to find her
but just want to say that they didn't we
the first unit is that they were brought up the kind of somehow
related to and bill nichols to the second world war
and a m
obviously there is a biographical relationship that they have to those
events but they've
my interest and they had to work that i'm trying to produce whenever the work
is related to those events
on wall in these much more organ and universal
rather than about the specific to your does it and that kind of
part of the field what's happened during the second world war
with a
and from the medical expenses that trina shape the world that we live in today
recessing the book and the nuclear bombs an example but also
the way
uh... after the world after the war will become much more poorly stick than ever
set the level of tro cities sitting you know on a fund unheard of hindu in in in
western society
to the always kind of thing
be remembered kerrigan out consciousness is a some sort of thing
immoral parameter and i i kind of sees that it's in
some of the work is relating to the past
but for me it's much more balk
about peace present in about a significant of tools
memorable for all day long and and and it's monthly interest to work with
supposed to meet your photography
is an attempt to all the little memories because it's so we are now living in the
times that then
that's very soon
dane first-generation older people's the two leads through those experiences
we'll pass away
ways and there is a discreet dangers that
tools memories will pass away and then
result all day long two bills
there is a great
a great free school for global floating something fundamental about our time of
moronic to such a level of responsibility and at the same time i'm
constantly surrounding and its relating awake
in a way to what the song about
i'm still a constant is that they have to surrender the fact that
the passage of time
will always fables memories and
hi and life to accept this
a lot of political violence controlled onto something
simultaneously afield is already gone
this film it's a bulb ended advance and then you to come on and
cheat did survive
faith and she was false but the gym danced for them in making a christmas
party when she refused
the context of times he and
explaining to my mother the beginning of the film
and they then she decided to dedicate twins after surviving their life to
naal she's in a a very emails
and then
the film was
it really is some sort of performance where she's done sinful
the last time
and because they're physically she was restricted chills down thing you know we
name rocking chair
so she's constantly moving between a darkness
and reappearing
and in life so there is kind of food she's submerging i was imagining the
lights being some sort of thing
that she would
tried to
com all too often being stalked by
and then
constantly she's about the subpoenas and reemerging and there is kind of tensions
that exist between
something that is
almost going but the constant earpiece
vitality and and and and and decide to come back
and then
i start when i spoke to were crazy was unique because then
you know i talked to about the city and she really wanted to do it but
i said the thing i would like to repent and filming
few months and the five months and she said that they shields that things will
be okay because five months is a long time
and and and to be in the period between the going away and coming back she had
an accident and she was in and orbit states hold postponed ever seen
and she never came back to what she was before with some of the people's
important work to do it so we flew over to is a very quickly and we safety
and said the entire scenario in named
in hand
in large
studios attain
she initiated and building the tables for the dance theater that they she
created which i felt was the most appropriate
place to film it shows only able to come fall
couple thousand seat in the chest servicing it to be very focused and
prepared for
and a m
either begun to what the realizes that she wasn't very happy with what we're
doing and i asked a lot
and she career officials thing and she wanted a space to expressing
we decided to do one take what we just licked it
do whatever she wanted front of the calmer
andy end up being a city mini take
that they in the central park part of the films that to me about here dancing
and the congress just following for india and then at the point
the chat dozen roka nei longer she just seat in the chair
and the movement of the restricted its his many bouncing wizard in with a
but in
thing that oldest the crew that was standing on the set around this time of
found it a very
e profound income afsane moving experience it and and
from a great privilege it she kinda fate
was willing to diesel bold and also uh... we'll too
express those
i think we instantly feel a connection to her
he talked about
going to where his father was punches none would talk about
running really fast from your home in london's israel sheet that project but
you've been making a sort of journeys for a long time trips that are um... as
direct as in this photograph which was shot on the side of the highway between
tel aviv in jerusalem and also was much more complicated and these are some in
stocks and worry filming this two pieces we just saw weekends for me and for
seven you're often out in the world working
uh... this is one of the examples that you've mentioned earlier
the blurring technique and how
this movement
might be captured on film about times meeting but the camera can still
tell that story in this was shot out the window of the train right
yet from from krakow auschwitz
for certain pieces view really i think made the journey
as much a part of the work is anything else um... we're showing the century now
very famous painting
that caspar david friedrich the german romantic painter
because it has a great parallel to one of your other well-known film projects
which is called theaters this is a still photograph from that same series
and here we don't quite have wonder muncie apart but we do have someone
making a journey
and this peace the strong also appears in the film uh... and it begins with a
description of the work but i think we should get to it and then talk alot
your journey to this place
and retracing some of these steps
so that's a scene from a third of snow he's theirs
um... which do you really
basin i think i don't think they simply retrace the steps of walter benjamin
interventionist intellectual iski
tried to escape from nazi-occupied france and spain and unfortunately was
detained and believe committed suicide
i'd like to hear from you about what the physical experience is like
why you felt to make a piece of benjamin you had to go to that leaks
then the generals tracing the roots of both abandonment full but they acted i
don't see this little about
little walter benjamin nye cds film
uh... as he told me
and a m
the walls for long time to all of these
bolta between
spain and france
on dental care needs near that mediterranean
and a piece for the was known as the border between life and a
and a path from beginning there were many other and
political dissidents during second world war that today
tried to
escaping use the strokes that was then
an american journalists quota and fry who'll
all from my own is their american schindler ending
management findings and they in
help four hundred more people to use the same ruled
not to escape
there and the germans
it's also important to remember that many
people on the left
and the left side of the spectrum
try to escape and at the same bold across assembled a one running away from
from home
and many people died over these boulder
it was interesting when i was crossing it for the first time that still on the
bullet holes
there were a photograph of it the terrorists
that use these bold because these territories very close to the basque
those both side of the bull them
also dividing between france and spain
bolts of cloth coat and on him
and people on both sides sees himself as a unit for the the starter is a unified
and one other thing that i found very interesting that now the boulders he
since then
their common market with them
blissful soul
these boulders and all
that does not exist anymore
so essentially the jenny's atwood doing movies sort of playing assault of
what's the difference because we were trying to cross the borders of the
and i think that in many ways the work is exploring these
relationship between
and culture and nature and not in my work is is x
looking at those
those ideas doubly true nature of of boulders
the weight territories decided
i was also interested in relation to be in another one of the things that then
handset from
fascinating subject
the paintings that they have does show the coldplay paintings that the country
in the collection of data is a museum
was the walter benjamin favorite painting
an atypical don't treat it was the last is last position and being
he tried to say leaked and just when he was desperate to get his visit united
and me
you describe the spending the same you describe it as the end of the story
any look at it is the son of missy on xp goes looking at the day into the
looking back into the past
and see all day and destruction
held and who want to do is go pick and repairs and mannerism rectal today
but there is destroyed and wind up going into the swing
pulling some wide open and pushing into equity into the future
and eastwind is what we call pro-gross
for talks about the day lexical
so now you know where
if the same jellies
and god's think about the scent of his day
it infancy on its feet yet
who want to resurrect the day
the way but there is the same materialistic world in
view fee stories that we constantly moving to program send this protest is
pushing that
and uh... there is a kind of
in these descriptions or is this kind of conditions that exist between they need
to find a word return of the messiah
is kind of historical materialistic historical programs that is constantly
moving in the union
and direction to it
etc flop and declare future
house interested in creating a churning where the figure in the film is
constantly walking battling with the element of constantly like in the
painting tried to push in bacon ald
well don't clean
and if it is kind of trying to buckland move forward into a different place
across the swollen
and then
one of the visually one of the dialect that those trying to create
and this was actually thinking about
many of the rope in the intellectuals including stephens like being in maine
and and others
with so attached to
the european irritation so they're german heritage that without the sea
didn't have any orientation in the world
and for that reason i don't believe and died or left left by then it's fighting
committed suicide because aku survive in brazil in another
in other places
i tried to show this film
initial before the major faded cost for free trade
i tried to show this film is if it's
a part of some sort of
german romantic landscape
the job we're free
off the film is actually in the mediterranean to the motor name so the
reason it kind of thing
it released march
and almost a act out the kind of created efficient version of displacement
the place appeared to be
what it's not
and as the fees german romantic landscape is becoming the force that is
holding back to the figures if the figure is trying to move out of these
and those landscape
uh... somehow
suffocating all when it became
so it's a mixture of scene so that our relationship to be amend our
relationship to poke laid out a mission trip to these
ideal boulders and uh... between nature of boulders
and and
and then gain
the reason
in afsane
appearance of some things that they
the viewer believe
the viewer tend to believe that say one thing about the looking at the exit from
the german amount to cleanse kit but there have been a completely different
place and those kind of thing
pain tension of the sections at the period and
and in the way the karma is depicting
the world's attention from exactly brings us to
the role of political orders in your account
the kind of photographs and films that you've made depicting
the borders that you grew up in their i'm in israel in china a very famous
rather kappa photo
which at the time was shocking and i think really still is a somebody at the
exact moment of being shot
during war you choose to
engage with violence but any completely subversive way bringing us their not to
graphic depictions but through
a more subtle and often beautiful story i'm neither black nor white power his
first film
uh... is also related to the spirit photographs gorgeous photograph of white
light red sea
uh... which were films and shot
physically on an important order
talk about it
i think these works a very much related to
trillion and two thousand and one wells climbing on in israel
i want to live up to two points and i was photographing the landscape in front
of me
and a m
often all almost without exception
the landscape included some
and some villages and all these villages are optic villages
it does appear that daily alicia romaine
was encouraging
buildup of jewish settlement in the got early on top of mountains in order to
some of them
and our continued t
in there is a comfortable strategic tension off where
and settlements are being build and created
so in many ways
there are you shit bout dis work for me uh... bringing
and already think it is about
eyeball told us about the relationship between
the land
and then or nature and culture and now
the bulldozing these popular please never explicitly told there is a sense
of some sort of explosion and a
the vibrancy of the comma
but it is about the some sort of division some always for taking the
photographer one vantage point
and that is essentially
and an israeli position 'cause
i was always on top of the mountain
and always looking at another place where the other that these often in
talk a little bit about another kind of order
a border that the rest of this might not think it's such a cosigner for you
beauty and violence are very much intrinsically linked in that line
between them
is very very and we're gonna show a clip
this one better be lab
so that's a big statement
but i think that it is this incredible image of
you know beauty in violence of creation and destruction and the title of the
pieces big bang which
you know says it right there
what is it for you
about beauty environments that you've always seen throughout your life in
trying to work
that link them so immediately make them so dependent went to the other
i think that it is to do isn't it
fundamental bit hectic since we experience and every minute of her life
remember once and
and friend of mine is for the survival you treat any in the told me i was for
the book about the
the unique the market
enough to think of the info oakland out
we sell the moment we use and sold affinity
beauty of it
it's almost the end
is if we can handle
and sex with animals that live
and also these kind of and community of
often is a
he set the force that make us forget
from some of the forms
i was constantly trying to create extension the congress moving and
on the scene and mcconico pace across the forest
and everything is very acadian
and as if you are also king's attain some kind of thing
film is very messy
and and
and if you're looking almost kind of fame
you know it
and get lost in peace
experience about the floor threefold and wondered refolding to become a very
and efficiently traumatic
and a dramatic experience but since the comida celebrate this moment become are
constantly moving across and this moment is that we could be in for booking and
once again physically we are in this package in space
what interest in a film like this i mean in relation to a sickness similar
after the explosion buat
dot all for the scope that was obtained last maybe three or four minutes and
become almost
is mesmerizing
and i'll quickly
the silence in mesmerizing that you can make us forget what appeared to be
looked at imminent earlier
throughout this transition ifpindia killed the time we can see something or
if it's a dip in afghanistan lives it is coming cost on the news and quickly
after we hang science and and
those transitional caring so quick
and now emotionally when making
eight connection and filling strong
main we put in investing or something ha moment
involved a manipulative
power of
visually in
make this transition and really
becoming so the second or something to adamant about it that i found
i'm compressible
and i'm constantly want to come back to these
and also to create for the view of those deceptions
and david
the recognition of them may bring
there will be scornful
about piece was based on a painting
and a lot of your work sexy things
on very traditional
mostly select painting
and it's interesting i think to look at work like this by monday we all
understand this work feel familiar with that
and then to look at a photograph that you've made on in this case boatman
i've now seeing many people interact with this piece in person and they all
convinced it's a painting
and healing has been so important for you
you've never citizens were painted itself
this is another one
your favorite
joined talk a little bit about painting and your
engagement with our history and
how you bringing together a sort of new technology with a very
type of heart making and also using this issue another metaphor for that buchanan
i think that then
well first alden
formalin as and static foundation for a person that they do giving photography
of film
i believe will say
create algo them both from beijing listed during their emissions
and then
possibly with the same ideas attain ability brought about
my milk and a perspective
and now to create an illusion of as three-dimensional space on main
on a flat converts
these very
same ideas were later using the design of lenses in the way photography
is working
both officials that they
these ideas are part of fame
and ongoing decided to com
much closer
the representation of the world it is out there
this is a worries version by the way uh...
that so and
we constantly and i think that we're trying to represent a much more at least
equal whatever we define israel to read it
critical the world at the start the and in
constantly looking they were looking for
various methods
and devices that will allow them to do the softer the invention of and
the milk in the perspective of mathematical perspective
later pinned ah... came across them
and concave mirrors that will allow them to
project images and create too much
kid fiction of the world
and send the lenses came in
the will tickle devices that time
improved and that allowed them to to
prick to paint much inanimate moralistic weight
tonight invented photography was invented in the photographer dvs
images that optically where
technical buildings on fire
it technically bill pickle devices were invented long time ago both photography
babies just invented a missile
to fix those images
and because the chemistry was it was just invented this is their new did you
the new difficult provide opposed it
so in many ways photograph was just
an invention the continuation of the same tradition
every photograph that i do i kinda feel that it's always related to
rule destroyed foundation the twisted
and gender in essence
one of the things that interests me about those films at those making decent
i'd also believes that then technologies not just
helping us to represent the world that is out there but it's also defining the
way we perceive the world
so if you think about the film like the pomegranate
he depict a moment
that then
old master painters like katie
him one scientist com
couldn't even comprehend
because the technology did not exist the film was done was shocked at the end an
incredible a friend rate of sixteen hundred friend the second
and because of the side frame rate we can see a bullet city struggling india
and actually penetrating pomegranate
in this seventeen or eighteen th century this technology does not exist and uh...
the paint them
was unable to get people's moment but even to think about them as
so what i was a what that much attempting to achieve in those two
lifelong is on the one hand
create images at the very much related to the story of printing but also the
peak moment that's where i'm comprehensible
old masters
and then domestic the time producing them is also very sick very different
from and and and tradition of painting bracing on the screen right now is the
photograph it's actually eight feet tall
on so it's a rematch deals with that
concept of painting as starting off point but
your prop
uh... than the painters this is a corey
filming that peace blow-up and
we just saw
dealing with some really advanced digital technology mates
and a lot of ways it's worth the opposite
these painters had to use on this show uh... detail
of just how high the resolutions
in terms of the photographic effects are able to achieve but we've had a lot of
conversations as well
about the out there
side of digital photography what you're seeing now is one of the first ever
color photographs um...
taken in the early nineteen hundreds by sympathy inventors of both color
photography and moving image film
when we look at all for electives we all think insult has its own grainy answer
pics elated
but this is fairly new photograph um... tori has made
is the polar opposite of these hyper sharp images of flowers and the
pomegranate i'm joined us hell a little bit about
the breakdown of digital technology as opposed to it for this for both in
people's produce in japan
and equals then volatile food
serious of faith cherry blossoms of those photographing
and then
i was attracted to the cherry blossom to stop weasels interested to go to
and the photograph those trees that time
were planted after the war
and a m the one and the other side
characterized labels
soft pastels carla
but then the realizations that what those trees are feeding off the
contaminated selected contaminate nucleus hole in the tension that exists
between those
and east this knowledge
individual appearance of the streets
will say something that those interested in design developed the work that i also
realize that the cherry blossom will stand
often use during second world war his and some sort of a symbol for the
kamikaze pilot and then the japanese three created then
strong analogy
name that all part of date
and darien the ideological discourse that was a bill
comparing the day several nature of the petals at the pope falling at the prime
to a day in fall of the kamikaze pilot
so go to work with the bob dole's relationship between images atop
on the one hand uh... almost
and very soft among the other hand uh... if the those kind of strong association
preventive depends around the world
now relating to the images that doc
breaking down
in the book photographic record those massive images
and my desire was to
create images that will be so shocked
between depicts a detail that even the naked eye can no longer pain
condone the process of the images himself
almost presenting
the subject in aka really
when i start to work
on those cherry blossom als mainly working with the with digital comma and
one of the things that interests me about this country's attempts
heats and
is a technology was introduced
he's come rose promoting itself as a device that can actually foot to look
for most of the any light condition
accommodate can work
it absolute darkness it dane sensitivities that there was an
comprehensible to me up-to-date time
it's about twenty five thousand pcs
and then
it's always interested to take the technology and that you need to work on
east racial at the point is that thing i'm trying to push the technology of the
comical does seem to keep the no longer too
and at this point the image of the fault of pop of steel altogether so went in
the middle of the night
and i've begun to take those photograph of the cherry blossom thoughtful coke in
the morning
this particular mp
and idea is sold twenty five thousand pencil
and at this point what stop lebanese that there is always some light
and dislike is
traveling through the lens
when it arrives to the sense of the car
the sense so
doesn't have enough
and information too
the image of pre-ordained
gain they liked it there is a t t
and as a result
they missed out the football
and i think my desire was not to create the images that look impressionistic or
look like there were two no color or the crumbs
i was trying to
pushed the console
to a point where he stopped to alter and they said the way a riyadh realities
there was no manipulation in these photographs
they would just taken
in a very direct mama
but what
template then
because of
the bottle
and you know if they're available light
that bility of this sense of the common to both of the information is that we
get those images that style
it can be nailed down i'll break it down almost to the atomic particles
i had a little bit too and you know that brings us to something i mean
you're always interested in truth in photographic truth and
in what's happened before but that books have failed to a quarter as people pass
away we have a culture loose that's worth collective memory
um... this is john debaters
i'm as you can see in the middle there's a
little black satchel
uh... which represents the last manuscript that some say welter bench
mean packed with him when he tried to escape
but other spend is not true uh... and thought it was like
without one green swamped somewhat related to the forest and to the
these are really anonymous places essentially
for you
i'm going to win
and say that you know
it's the cameras ability to make this solemn or two
give memory back to people that you can you know really play up in places were
important things did happen and we hear we have for cotton but at the same time
the camera becomes this tool to convey how memory works and fails
do you want i could have been swamped
i want to show out one last fall and i think we should do questions
you have a printed film which i'm happy to say you made for me unit for months
and argument for me
and what we did at the newseum of fine arts boston say don't worry we know how
interested you are in our history
go at it
look at our entire collection me any curator you want on any storage area one
and select something anything um... to base a new film on based on our
collection and this is what you chose which again really surprised uh... a lot
of us we were all expecting probably european painting maybe something for
photographic history but this is an each greek point that's you pretty much the
second and alexa
part-time point to work
scs not the case when i started
and i don't want we had conversations are trying to get which point out of the
thousands of options
you are very much looking for one of a real person
and what we could do uh...
to that one person in terms of
using video in using film on do you want to talk a little bit about it and then
i'm gonna roll it
i knew that
when i was invited to make a film for the museum
and and
the film it to relate to uh... from the collection
but the wanted
i had this kind of thing and so that i would like to work reason extreme heat
something that is close always possible ways a nuclear hate house interested in
is so powerful that is destroying the dissension it's also force that is
creating them and thinking about him
and in nuclear destruction it's fair for city siemens painlessly
committee is the fourth of creation and and destruction at the same time so i
wanted to
destroy something with the construction being such a speedy
transformed the material from
dis from state from solid-state into liquid and then into glass
to make the old chick
a if operate
if they didn't resist created so we can go from something that form goss
tended to slowly than i thought the benefits vocals possibilities
and then i was going to various nuclear reaction
the reactors and talking to some scientists
and concentrate a face various obstacles and difficult to send it in the process
and i was also looking at some solace for missus with and
and that you'll pizza use in order to win create energy in
simultaneously i was thinking about
you about dole picked from the museums that w
alkyl feels concealing these processes and then as and kind of of chemical
i was then imagining
working with metal
and starting with uh... nothing always liquid and slowly creating and noble
metals something that will become
you know will look like golden
and after
has very long journey i came to love the coin and one of the things that
interests me in a truck make to the quantities then
and the scale of the post manageable work
wednesday in amount of heat that i wanted to
and the speed that those trying to achieve
and another scene that they found very interesting
his opinion
this is an ancient greek wine its
about two-and-a-half thousand years old
these are the festival claims to be produced and the first times that in
that this society
created an object that can be and
exchange for commodity
and since this invention going to have been changed the toll thought than a
thousand two years
never changing scale
need the portrait is the the perspectives
they've been mentioned portion of the portrait that and changed at all
always kings are presented on points and then there's even an issue was an
american president sadat
are now bearing on point that for many years and they didn't
partly because
united states wanted to differentiate it's itself or main for the united
but also
it is to do with the reason
wees dynasty in and royalty
and a m
soap the scoring is service in a lot too
and the u_k_ incl u_k_ coins and there was a portrait of queen elizabeth
one another thing that interests me about the sad knowledge the end of those
two enough of india's
we almost coming through in the first cycle and and the reason
and very i transit very soon
corn will be phased out topped off and
all too often economy
and most construction not tending to be obstruct using consonant and it's and so
it's this critical moment within and anything in this respect personal
commitment photographed
it's an attempt to hold on to something that is already gone knows that is about
to fade away
i tried to do in this film insane to record the pros of it is very simple
just the corn is melted
but the film is playing it from the end to the beginning
it stop with these
i'm trained
i'm trained material
that these
moving around in a very close to call them
and slowly out the feet
form lisa managing and somehow i think there's a is a correlation between
once again culture and nature
cultural desire to threaten the material
and stomping human portrait on it
and a m
the subtopics throwing those ideas but then
i suppose that they had been been
the main expensive come across is a very and visceral in central experience of
the same
altered that these
constantly moving the wrong
and then dogle supported saddam somehow emerging and submerging indeed ten then
more than somebody standing from pathi
the main task is to figure out what exactly is going on
being a missing these kind of thing game
these are some on images of korean making uh... the peace
he claims that the one with the heat gun was not set up
item leave that uh... but i'm going to see a little bit of from is it really is
quite mesmerizing
so we can manage it
things coming in and out of you if memory fading and coming back to us
person in place and i think that's no longer
solid i think we should take questions
i think they want to talk to you
and even
the the phone one another it's easy to that it's a very open process
and they see that the the industry
rent really etc
in weakness eat
in the process of making this film
as they felt the pressure because then
develops we'll circle that's become a
the film and i had some sort of idea what i would like to do
but date yet that initially that they had initially his was very impractical
sized up to explore it and figure out
how long the nativity
and constantly
realize why the seven-year is not an option and and i told him
another venue and other video opens up
and i chick
taking these rolled
in the process i read more i'm make a lot of experiments in the studio on
vocation in the process save for making this film all went to m_i_t_ and talked
with some scientist says and i went to france
to work on the solar finesse and doing some experimentation with them there
somehow clarity as american
and and
clarity cities
partly it to the ways then
the conceptual integrity of full time trying to do
and off
the visual image
and off the technologies it is available sold
it's never
it's very direct route to have an idea and i go and make it
and it seems it it's it's an amended definitive between
industry can idea
and trying to
some holocaust rule an experience
the work is american novel
i will say that this experience of working on a commission with an artist
is never pleasant for curator exciting unpleasant
i definitely got at least one holster
meanwhile is getting phone calls from the pure and he's like
about the solar furnace
and we don't think it's going to work applicable ken
if what's that mean
having the experience of seeing your process of watching you
happiest moments of discovery of
also i think senior like became a candy store you don't get to go with an artist
who actual functioning nuclear reactor very often i'm so that was a really
great experience but it really is the process is so much about even taking
about evolution
you know from the territory perspective it hasn't stopped like
take a chill pill drink something whatever works for you
watches this process unfolds that isn't predictable on that isn't setup time
beyond their hands that
essentially what they wanted to do is go to trick photography is to destroy the
film was life
i wanted to
to create an in
and not a fireman's but not
not in the subject that they described in the process of ten actually
uh... name
but but in the process itself
so went in the summer in the middle of the some in the middle of the day where
the sun was incredibly bright teeny surrounding palestinian villages
and i'd just
opened opportunistic com
and left
lefty tools of the lights or more and more like what pouring onto the film
and since i didn't know what does that what those doing and what to expect in a
processed those films the netbook it's very dense blocked negatives couldn't
see anything through some
an act of these negatives to the doctrine
and i tried to
prints images out of them and uh... very
long exporters again to get anything onto the photographic paper
and these are the images that came out and then
i was c initially it was a very kind of simple
ideal for creating a tension between
and light
uh... like that which destroyed the film
later kind of realized that the law what the gun clip into something that
from is very interesting
it's like chocolate onto the film
heats registered information
and because they left dot virtual open for very long period of time more like
travel on to the film
and the lights came on told
vaulted the it to raise the information
but the way to raise the information is by registration of you information on
told so it's quotes the pro-ltte sis dialectical process of
recording in a racing
and the images in the money donation of all these
i would say
zipped that
work humiliated by the film all the time
these kind of relationship to land a one-man with properties
recording history in fixing easter at the same
anderson talk and there is this kind of
those images representing the subjective nature off memory an accumulation of lot
of information
creating at the end
unified the image but these unified image is not made a lot of things
particular incident but both bills
tension between remembering and forgetting those that electrical
relationship so
uh... kind of today i sing about these images more
induced them
i'm also interested in dade different circle care between
those images that still a very straightforward ole duties list click
with the kaha
and but
cells will still be fruitful
my monday an experienced off those trees so when i was looking at the trees in
when the common looked at those trees
the panels illegal we agreed to similar experience but they are coming solely
named and its gracefully question a forties truth
and our realities recorded what relationship accom residents of
uh... supposedly say is an objective instrument is to the world's at these
outstanding ought to love it
upset something like that
an absolute truth
another question
he today here in the past
now a look
one of the the
pink paintings malls and photography but when asked about
for posters at that time i they'll say
photographers like eugene aji
from nineteenth century and a justices that the i'd like for an option then
from contemporary petition as a
and uh... the work for a chance to be a mock trial and and
and and
i think the the work from christmas to you think for the poland
uh... all of this people really here working a different way
like you to peru she is
exposures which is cool uh... and then you borrowed risky is super high tech
um... and seated ac is for me a very dramatic turnaround it worked there
something about
and his black-and-white photographic stick
questions will go there first
them also is thirteen incredible leasing is good for me and a black paintings and
particularly l
uh... moving beyond belief
about the work of saying
who are not and
the salon
quicktime enters the leases for them and at the time
it one more question
that's okay
uh... a good sport
on that we will all go home in google that
uh... hi well restore on my phone handicapped boy back
but thank you all of you so much for coming played