Regular 06/26/12 Session - Norfolk City Council


Uploaded by NorfolkTV on 26.06.2012

Transcript:
>>> IF I COULD CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.
>> NOT ON THE AGENDA, WE NOTICED TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO
TALK ABOUT APPOINTMENTS. YOU READY?
>> I'D LIKE TO DO THAT FIRST, MAKE SURE WE GET THAT OUT OF THE
WAY. THEN COME BACK AND COME OUT AND
DO INTERESTS. >> SURE.
I MOVE THE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL ASSEMBLE IN CLOSED MEETING ON
JUNE 26th, 2012, AT 5:30 P.M., PURSUANT TO THE PROVISIONS OF
THE VIRGINIA -- [ VOTE TAKEN ]
>> THANK YOU. >> COUNCIL, DO YOU HAVE ANY --
ANDY? MR. RIDDICK?
>> YES, I WAS GOING TO MENTION, THIS YEAR, AND I DON'T KNOW
ABOUT PREVIOUS YEARS, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE, IT JUST
DIDN'T WORK EFFECTIVELY AND SO I THINK THEY NEED A BOARD OF
DIRECTORS OR SOMEBODY TO START WORKING IN THE FALL AND MAKE
SURE THAT THINGS -- MAKE SURE THAT THEY SCHEDULE GAMES AND
THEY'RE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, ABLE TO PLAY BASEBALL.
ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE NOTICED IS THAT NONE OF OUR SCHOOLS HAVE
OUTSIDE -- HAVE LIGHTS. YOU KNOW, FOR NIGHT.
AND NORFOLK IS JUST NOT GEARED FOR BASEBALL LIKE CHESAPEAKE AND
WESTERN BRANCH AND HICKORY AND ALL OF THOSE PLACES, AND EVEN IN
A BIGGER SCHOOL IN PORTSMOUTH. I MEAN, THEY ARE REALLY GEARED
TO BASEBALL, BUT WE REALLY JUST NEED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH
BASEBALL. AND ANOTHER THING I WAS
THINKING, TOO, IS THAT RECREATION, PARKS AND OPEN
SPACES IS ONE THING, BUT WHEN I WAS A YOUNGSTER, WHICH WAS 100
YEARS AGO, THE NORFOLK RECREATION BUREAU, THEN YOU
STILL HAD YOUR, YOU KNOW, PARKS AND FORESTRY AND ALL THAT.
I THINK WE NEED TO SEPARATE THAT THING AND CONCENTRATE ON
RECREATION. I'M STILL CONCERNED, WHAT MR.
BURFOOT BROUGHT UP IN THE PAST, ON A SATURDAY, ON AT LEAST EIGHT
OR NINE STREET CORNERS, YOU HAD YOUNGSTERS TRYING TO RAISE MONEY
FOR EQUIPMENT AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE AND I JUST FIGURE THAT A
CITY LIKE OURS, OPERATING ON A BILLION-DOLLAR BUDGET, WE SHOULD
BE ABLE TO AT LEAST START SUPPLYING HELP FOR THESE
YOUNGSTERS AS FAR AS FOOTBALL IS CONCERNED IF WE CAN'T DO IT ALL,
AND WE SPEND $170,000, YOU KNOW, FOR FLEET PARK, WHICH IS -- WE
SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING. ALSO, I DON'T KNOW FOR THE
SCHOOL DISTRICT, WHO CONTROLS THE TIME OF PRACTICE, BUT WHILE
WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT REALLY EXHAUSTING HEAT THIS SUMMER SO
FAR, I WISH THEY COULD GET A MESSAGE TO THE COACHES THAT IT
WOULD BE GOOD IF THEY COULD PRACTICE MAYBE AT 6:30 IN THE
MORNING AND 6:30 IN THE EVENING, TWO FORECAST A DAY IF THAT'S --
TWO PRACTICES A DAY IF THAT'S WHAT THEY DO, BUT JUST TO STAY
AWAY FROM THAT INTENSE HEAT. IN SOME OTHER CITIES, YOU KNOW,
WE READ ABOUT YOUNGSTERS WHO DIE FROM HEAT EXHAUSTION AND WE'VE
BEEN FORTUNATE AROUND HERE. SO WE JUST NEED TO TAKE ALL THE
PRECAUTIONS WE CAN TO KEEP THESE YOUNGSTERS SAFE WHO DECIDE THEY
WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL FOR HIGH SCHOOL.
AND I THINK THAT'S ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.
>> AND I REALLY THINK THAT'S TRUE (INAUDIBLE).
I REMEMBER GROWING UP 100 YEARS AGO TOO, BUT I REMEMBER
PLAYING -- I PLAYED BASKETBALL, FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, RECREATION
WAS WELL-MANAGED. THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENCES --
I MEAN, I THINK WE'VE LOST SOME OF THAT.
THE RBI THING STARTED OFF WITH A BANG AND THEN IT JUST, YOU KNOW,
SOME OF PEOPLE WERE INTERESTED IN IT AND WE JUST SEEMED TO HAVE
A LOT OF (INAUDIBLE), BUT IT SORT OF -- I THINK IT'S VERY
IMPORTANT. >> ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD ADD
TO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHEN I CAME UP, WE HAD -- THE
ONLY LEAGUE WE PLAYED IN WAS THE CITY'S LEAGUE, AND THAT WAS IT.
NOW YOU HAVE -- IN YOUTH FOOTBALL, THEY HAVE LIKE CITY
LEAGUE, THEN THEY HAVE THIS OTHER LEAGUE THAT THE SCHOOLS
TRAVEL. I FORGET WHAT IT'S CALLED.
HOTWATER, AND SO A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, AFTER THESE YOUNG
KIDS, WHO YOU'RE OUT THERE FOR, THEY'RE OUT THERE FOR THE CITY.
I TRY AND GET DONATIONS, GET THEM TO CUT SOME GRASS OR DOING
SO, BUT A LOT OF TIMES YOU SEE THESE TEAMS, THEY ARE THE POP
WARNER TEAM AND I KNOW YOU TRY TO SAY TO THE COACHES THAT ARE
GOING TO BE OPERATING UNDER PARKS AND REC WITH THE CITY
THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT TO HAVE THESE YOUNG MEN OUT THERE,
YOU KNOW, DOING THAT. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WE RING IN
THE OTHER KIDS FROM DOING IT, BUT I JUST THINK IT'S AWFUL FOR
THE COACHES TO HAVE THEM OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, DIVING IN AND
OUT OF TRAFFIC, YOU KNOW. AND THERE'S ANOTHER WAY THAT YOU
SHOW THESE YOUNG MEN, YOU KNOW, HOW TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND THAT,
YOU KNOW, WORK ETHIC. NOTHING IS FREE.
AND SO I JUST -- YOU KNOW, JUST HOPING THAT WE CAN DO MORE TO
HELP, BUT NOT IN THE WAY THEY'RE GOING ABOUT IT.
>> WE NEED TO HELP THEM, BUT I THINK YOU ALSO NEED TO EXAMINE
THE CULTURE AND WHAT'S GOING ON. >> EXACTLY.
>> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF -- I THINK WE KNOW, OUR PARKS AND REC
KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF LOOSE FINANCIAL ISSUES WHEN IT COMES
TO -- AND I'VE LEARNED THIS ONLY TALKING TO THE PARKS AND REC,
THAT WHEN IT COMES TO THE VARIOUS REC LEAGUES, THAT
THEY'RE RUN IN A DIFFERENT MANNER AND THAT BEING
UNDERSTOOD, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY WE'RE GOING TO GIVE X-NUMBER OF
DOLLARS WITHOUT EXAMINING WHAT'S HAPPENING FIRST.
[ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ] >> I THINK IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE
INVESTIGATED TO FIND OUT, WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH WHAT YOU
HAVE. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT DO YOU HAVE,
WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH WHAT YOU HAVE, AND THEN LOOK INTO HOW WE
CAN ASSIST. >> AND HOW MUCH ASSISTANCE DO
THEY REALLY WANT? I UNDERSTAND THERE MAY BE SOME
PUSH BACK -- [ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ]
>> AND DARRYL HAS REALLY SPENT A LOT OF TIME LEARNING, FIGURING
THAT OUT, MUCH TO HIS CREDIT, BUT THAT'S --
>> THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO IS A SURVEY, WE WANT TO GET A --
EVERYBODY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE DOING, WHAT OUR
RESOURCES ARE, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN IDENTIFY THE NEEDS PRETTY
QUICKLY. >> ANOTHER THING ALSO, CAN WE
SEND SOMETHING TO THESE LEAGUES, TO THE COACHES OR PARENTS OR
SOMETHING THAT -- I MEAN, OR IS THERE A CITY CODE OR SOMETHING
THAT IS BEING BROKEN WITH THESE CHILDREN SOLICITING -- WE NEED
TO SEND THEM SOMETHING TO LET THEM KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT SAFE.
YOU KNOW, THE SAFETY OF IT IS, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY -- WE HAVE?
CAN WE SEND IT AGAIN? MAYBE WE SHOULD -- BECAUSE I SEE
IT TOO AND IT'S LIKE THE KIDS TAKE CHANCES THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE
CRAZY WITH TRAFFIC COMING AT 100 MILES AN HOUR AND IT'S --
THEY -- THE SAFETY ISSUE OF IT IS WHAT REALLY, REALLY SCARES
ME. AND I THINK WE'VE BEEN LUCKY
THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY INCIDENTS WITH CHILDREN DARTING
OUT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET.
>> TERRI? >> TWO QUICK THINGS.
AS FAR AS ENVIRONMENTAL GOES, I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT
EFFORTS FOR RECYCLING IN DOWNTOWN AND ALSO OUR
BUSINESSES, AND I'M PARTICULARLY STRUCK BY OUR RESTAURANTS WHICH
HAVE JUST SO MANY BOTTLES AND CANS AND THINGS THAT WE OUGHT TO
BE ABLE TO RECYCLE AND IT I'D LIKE A FOLLOW-UP ON THAT.
AND NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, I ASKED ABOUT BANNING PLASTIC BAGS IN
THE CITY AND THE DECISION THEN WAS THAT WE WOULD, INSTEAD, TRY
TO INCENTIVIZE NOT USING PLASTIC BAGS.
I'D LIKE TO SEE HOW THAT'S GOING.
I'M NOT SEEING A LOT OF PLACES THAT ARE AVAILABLE WHERE YOU'RE
SUPPOSED TO RECYCLE PLASTIC BAGSES.
I KNOW SOME GROCERY STORES DO LIP SERVICE ON GIVING YOU A
NICKEL A BAG, BUT I'D LIKE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF FOLLOW-UP ON
THAT. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN INCREASED
INTEREST IN THAT IN OTHER PLACES IN THE STATE AND I HOPE WE CAN
STAY UP WITH THAT. ACTUALLY, I WALKED TO WORK DOWN
HAMPTON BOULEVARD AND IN THE MORNING, YOU CANNOT HEAR
YOURSELF THINK WITH THE TRUCKS. I CAN'T EVEN MARCUS JONES WHAT
IT MUST BE LIKE TO LIVE ON HAMPTON BOULEVARD WITH THOSE
TRUCKS. I DON'T CARE HOW LOUD I HAVE MY
iPOD, YOU CANNOT HEAR -- I MEAN, IT IS JUST HORRIFIC.
COMING HOME, I COME AFTER THE TRUCKS ARE BANNED AND SO IT'S
RELATIVELY PLEASANT WALK, BUT MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WE SET
UP -- I TRIED, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL YEARS AGO COULDN'T -- DIDN'T
MEET ANY SUCCESS FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, ON TRYING TO LIMIT THE
TRUCKS ON HAMPTON. WE SET UP A COMMITTEE.
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING, REALLY, IN FOLLOW-UP ON THE WORK
THAT WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO DO WITH JOBS, OR WITH CART SHARING,
WITH THE TRUCKS AGREED TO TRY TO DO SOME OTHER THINGS,
TECHNOLOGY-WISE, SO THEY WOULD LIMIT THEIR TRIPS.
ALL OF THIS. AND I KNOW THAT WE'RE HOPEFUL
THE MIDTOWN IS GOING TO HELP WITH SOME OF THIS, BUT THEN THIS
BEGS THE QUESTION. THEY NEED TO SEE THAT THE MAYORS
AND CHAIRS HAVE COME OUT WITH WORKING TOWARD TRYING TO IMPROVE
OUR TRANSPORTATION AND I CONTINUE TO SEE INTEREST IN
IMPROVING AND WIDENING HAMPTON ROADS BRIDGE TUNNEL AND I'LL
JUST -- I JUST HOPE WE ARE PUTTING SOME REAL PRESSURE ON
FROM THIS AREA, BOTH THE NORFOLK AND VIRGINIA BEACH, TO
EMPHATICALLY TELL THEM THAT THIS IS NOT AN OPTION.
I MEAN, AS A TAXPAYER, I DON'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY STUDYING
HRBT WIDENING. I KNOW THAT I'M PREACHING TO THE
CHOIR HERE, BUT I JUST DON'T WANT IT PUSHED SO FAR DOWN THE
ROAD THAT THE NEXT THING WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S MOVING
ALONG. ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE NOT AT THE
TABLE AND THEN -- I MEAN, I KNOW YOU'RE AS WORRIED AS I AM ABOUT
THE PORTS AND HAVING THAT DECISION MADE WITHOUT US BEING
AT THE TABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PORTS ARE HELPING ALLEVIATE
SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THEIR TRAFFIC PROVIDES TO OUR
CITIZENS. I KNOW THAT THIS IS SOMETHING
EVERYBODY HERE AT THIS TABLE BELIEVES IN TOO, BUT --
>> WELL, THAT DESERVES A WHOLE DAY BY ITSELF AS WELL.
EVERY COMMUNITY ON HAMPTON ROADS, AT LEAST ON THE
SOUTHSIDE, IS IN SUPPORT -- THAT I'M AWARE OF, HAS BEEN ASKED THE
QUESTION AND THE ANSWER IS SUPPORTIVE OF SOMETHING CALLED
THE PATRIOTS CROSSING OVER THE EXPANSE OF THE HRBT, BUT THERE
ARE PEOPLE ON THE PENINSULA THAT CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE BRIDGE.
INSTEAD OF BUYING INTO THE NOTION THAT THEY SHOULD DIVERT
TRAFFIC FROM THE CHOKE POINT, THEY DECIDE THEY WANT TO WIDEN
THE CHOKE POINT AND EVERY TIME WE'VE HAD A VOTE ON IT, THE
PATRIOT'S CROSSING WENT TO VOTE, THE BRIDGE OR THE THIRD CROSSING
WENT TO VOTE. IT JUST IS -- THERE'S SOME
PEOPLE WHO WON'T LET IT GO. I THINK POLITICALLY, THERE'S
SOME REASONS FOR IT, BUT VDOT, BECAUSE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
MEMBERS ON THE PENINSULA HAVE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE OF SOME --
SOME OF THEM. SOME OF THEM ARE GONE NOW, BUT
THE WIDENING OF THE HRBT, THEY AGREED TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY
AND I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH GOING TO FALL IN OUR FAVOR.
I THINK YOU WILL CONTINUE TO HEAR ABOUT IT.
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, NO ONE IS GOING TO BUILD ANOTHER
EXPANSION OF EITHER THE HRBT OR THE THIRD CROSSING FOR YEARS.
I MEAN, MIDTOWN TUNNEL, I HAD BREAKFAST THIS MORNING WITH THE
GUY -- THAT'S WHERE I WAS WHEN YOU GUYS WERE AT THE CHRYSLER, I
WAS MEETING WITH THE GUY WHO'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BUILD THE
TUNNEL, AND I MEAN, THAT WON'T BE FINISHED UNTIL 2016.
THERE WON'T BE ANYTHING BUILT BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.
THERE WON'T BE ANYTHING BUILT FOR YEARS AFTER THAT AS WELL.
SO WE'RE GOING TO BE -- BUT, I WILL SAY THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE
TRYING TO MOVE AHEAD. THEY JUST SPENT NEAR
1 1/2 MILLION DOLLARS IN NORFOLK JUST BUYING TRUCKS AT THE PORTS,
IN NORFOLK TO START TO RAMP UP. IT'S A SMALL STAFF OF THREE AND
THEY'RE EVENTUALLY GOING TO BE IN SEVERAL HUNDRED, AND --
>> WHEN ARE THEY COMING BACK? >> THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE OVER
PRETTY QUICKLY, THE ENTIRE MIDTOWN, DOWNTOWN, MARTIN LUTHER
KING, AND YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME IMPROVEMENTS, I THINK
COSMETIC STUFF, BUT THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO BE RUNNING A CIRCUIT
UNLIKE WHAT VDOT WAS DOING, TRYING TO IMMEDIATELY CLEAR
ZHARDS, KEEP THE -- HAZARDS, KEEP THE PROJECT IN SHAPE.
THEY HAVE BUDGET TO DO THINGS NOW THAT VDOT DIDN'T HAVE.
IT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO ADDRESS WHAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT,
BUT -- >> BUT WE HAVE THAT HUGE P.I.T.
LOT OVER THERE THAT IS TOTALLY VACANT.
IT'S A PERFECT LOT. PEOPLE PARK OVER THERE, HOP ON A
VEHICLE, ONE VEHICLE, AND SCOOT OVER THE BRIDGE.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO JUST BUILD A TUNNEL.
WE HAVE TO TAKE STUFF OFF OF HAMPTON BOULEVARD.
>> THEY'RE GOING TO SPEND -- THE ERC GUYS ARE GOING TO SPEND
$2 MILLION A YEAR WITH HRT. THEY'RE GOING TO RUN A BUS
THEMSELVES, AND THEY AGREED -- THEY HAVE STRUCK A DEAL AND IT'S
GOING TO BE FREE TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS AND INTO THE
BUSES AND THEY'RE GOING TO PAY HRT $2 MILLION A YEAR TO GO BACK
AND FORTH LIKE THAT. SO THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO
ADDRESS THAT. >> ANYWAY, I COULD GET ANOTHER
UPDATE ON THAT. >> I HAVE A QUESTION.
IS ONE LANE SAFER THAN THE OTHER FOR TRUCKS ON HAMPTON BOULEVARD?
LET'S JUST SAY IF ALL THE TRUCKS STAYED IN THE CENTER LANE OR THE
LEFT LANE -- >> HAVE TO BE IN THE RIGHT LANE.
>> BUT THEY CAN'T GET THROUGH THE UNDERPASS IF THEY'RE IN THE
RIGHT LANE, SO THEY MERGE OVER. >> I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE
POSSIBILITY OF, THE SIDEWALKS AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND IF
EACH ONE OF THEM WERE GOING AND COMING WERE IN THE CENTER LANE,
THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST HAVE ALL YOUR TRUCKS AND THE OTHER
CARS JUST BE ABLE TO -- MAYBE NOT MOVE AS QUICKLY AS THEY
WOULD LIKE TORQUE BUT AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE IN THE RIGHT LANE
AND WE HAVE ALL OUR TRUCKS CONFINED TO ONE LANE.
WHEN WE HAD THAT HURRICANE ISABEL, I SUGGESTED WE ELIMINATE
TRUCKS ON HAMPTON BOULEVARD BECAUSE THEY WERE ACCUSTOMED TO
GOING -- >> THAT WAS OUR MISSED
OPPORTUNITY. >> THAT WAS A TIME WE COULD HAVE
JUST CUT IT OFF RIGHT THERE. >> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS.
FIRST, THE NORVIEW COMMUNITY CENTER, AND THIS IS NOT JUST
NORVIEW COMMUNITY CENTER, BUT FOR ALL OF OUR CITY, YOU KNOW,
2003 SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUILD THESE FACILITIES AND WE
HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THEM.
AND THE NORMAL MAINTENANCE AND UPKEEP OF THESE ESTABLISHMENTS
NEED TO BE ROUTINE, NOT ONCE A YEAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU
HAVE PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THESE FACILITIES, I JUST FEEL
PERSONALLY THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM.
SO AGAIN, WHETHER IT'S OUTSIDE PICKING UP THE PAPER OR MAKING
SURE THAT THE PLACE THE PRESENTABLE, MAKING SURE THAT
THE PUBLIC ART IS NOT DEFACED OR THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE GLASS --
THAT WINDOWS ARE CLEAN AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, THE PARKING LOT
DOESN'T HAVE TRASH OR THE TRASH CAN IS NOT RUNNING OVER, THAT
THEY TAKE CARE OF IT, HAVE A SENSE OF PRIDE ABOUT THE PLACE
THAT YOU WORK. BECAUSE I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU GO TO
SOME OF THESE PLACES AND THEY'RE FAIRLY NEW AND THEY SHOULDN'T
LOOK LIKE THEY'RE 10, 15 YEARS OLD.
WE GOT TO TAKE CARE -- IF YOU TAKE CARE, IN TERMS OF HAVING TO
REPLACE THINGS, THEY HAVE A LONGER LIFE IF WE TAKE CARE OF
THEM ON THE FRONT END. I LOOKED AT THE PUBLIC ART AND I
KNOW THAT WHEN WE WENT TO THAT TYPE OF STONE OUT THERE IN
NORVIEW, THAT THE LADY EXPLAINED THAT, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE
CLEANED. AND SO, YOU KNOW, UNLESS SOMEONE
HAS THAT RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE DONE.
AND SO I JUST THINK THAT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS NEED TO BE
ONGOING AND ESPECIALLY WITH US ADDING THE NEW WATER FEATURE TO
THE BACK, I WOULD HOPE THAT, AGAIN, NORMAL MAENLT AND UPKEEP
WILL BE ROUTINE AND SO, AGAIN, THAT THESE THINGS WILL LOOK LIKE
WE JUST PURCHASED THEM. PEOPLE WALK INTO THE CENTER, I
MEAN, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY KIDS COME IN AND OUT OF THAT
FACILITY A DAY, THE FLOOR SHOULD BE MAINTAINED.
THE PLACE SHOULD BE SPOTLESS. THE OTHER THING I NEED TO KNOW,
WHEN THE CHINESE PLACE ON JANE BEACH BOULEVARD AND MERRIMAC,
WHEN IS THE SCHEDULED DATE FOR DEMOLITION?
LAST WEEK OR THIS WEEK OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING DEFINITIVE AS IT
RELATES TO THAT. AND THIRDLY, AND THIS IS VERY
IMPORTANT TO ME, WHEN -- AND I WON'T SAY THE NAME, BUT WE USED
TO HAVE A P.R. PERSON THAT WORKED WITH THE COUNCIL.
WHEN WE WENT IN ANOTHER DIRECTION, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT
THAT AND AT SOME POINT, WE WERE GOING TO REPLACE THAT, HAVE A
FORMAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A P.R. PERSON THAT WORKS WITH THE
COUNCIL. WE DON'T HAVE THAT TODAY, AND
FOR ME, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. WHEN I LOOK AT ALL THE WORK THAT
WE'RE DOING IN OUR COMMUNITY, IT DOESN'T TAKE BUT A SINGLE
INCIDENT OF THE MEDIA TO JUMP ON IT AND TALK ABOUT WHAT'S
HAPPENING NEGATIVE IN THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK IT'S OUR JOB TO PAINT -- OR TELL THE STORY OF WHAT'S
HAPPENING POSITIVE IN THESE COMMUNITIES, WHETHER IT BE
FAIRMONT PARK OR WARD'S CORNER, WHATEVER COMMUNITY IT IS.
IF WE DON'T TELL THAT STORY, THEN, YOU KNOW WHAT?
IT'S HARDER FOR US TO TRY TO ATTRACT PEOPLE INTO THOSE
COMMUNITIES BECAUSE ALL THEY HEAR IS WHETHER IT BE PRINT
MEDIA OR TELEVISION, THAT THESE NEGATIVE THINGS ARE GOING ON.
NOTHING TO REFUTE THAT OR NOTHING TO BACK THAT UP AND
SAYING, WELL, HERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN
THESE COMMUNITIES. AND, YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER A TIME
WHEN WE DID JUST A DEMOLITION OF AN OLD BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THAT
WAS COVERED. WE DID, YOU KNOW -- WITH ALL THE
CHALLENGES OR THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN ON TV, WHETHER IT BE
ALEXANDER STREET OR SEWELLS POINT ROAD.
THE OTHER DAY WE HAD SOMETHING THAT IN MY OPINION WAS TRULY
SIGNIFICANT THAT TOOK PLACE OVER IN THE NORVIEW COMMUNITY, ONE OF
IT'S KIND, WHETHER YOU GO TO CHESAPEAKE, WHATEVER COMMUNITY
YOU GO TO, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS DONE AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE
PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HELPING DESIGN THIS WATER
FEATURE AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ARE UTILIZING
THIS WATER FEATURE, THE DIVERSITY OF YOUNG PEOPLE, THE
PARENTS THAT ARE OUT THERE WITH THEM, THAT WAS A BIG STORY, YOU
KNOW. AND THE COVERAGE THAT WE GOT,
YOU KNOW, RIDICULOUS IN MY PERSONAL OPINION.
AND NO CONVERSATION WITH NOBODY IN-HOUSE.
I KNOW THAT BOB WAS ON VACATION. I COULD HAVE CALLED HIM, BUT I
THOUGHT THAT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS -- WHEN WE SEND WE SEND
OUT THE MEDIA PACKAGE, WELL, TO ME THAT AIN'T ENOUGH.
YOU SEND OUT A MEDIA PACKAGE, YOU KNOW.
I SEE THE TRUCK SITTING OUTSIDE CITY HALL EVERY DAY, SO THAT TO
ME IS JUST NOT ENOUGH. SO WHEN WE WORK HARD TO HAVE
POSITIVE THINGS IN OUR COMMUNITY TAKE PLACE, I'M EXPECTING US TO
WORK JUST AS HARD TO GET PEOPLE OUT THERE TO NOTICE, TO REFUTE
THOSE THINGS. WE HAVE TO HAVE BALANCE AS WE
BEGIN TO TRY TO TAKE BACK OR GET PEOPLE TO INVEST IN OUR
COMMUNITY. NOT JUST IN CERTAIN AREAS, BUT
IN ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY. PEOPLE COME IN THESE AREAS, I
DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS GOING ON. THAT'S WONDERFUL.
BUT IF WE DON'T TELL THAT STORY, THEN IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.
SO MY QUESTION IS, AGAIN, ARE WE GOING TO HAVE SOMEONE THAT WE
HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH, THAT WE CAN TALK TO ABOUT THESE
THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, AND THEN
ATTENTION IS PAID TOWARDS THEM? >> I THINK WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO
IS COME UP WITH A PLAN, LIKE A MEDIA PLAN, RIGHT?
I MEAN, AND I AGREE, AND THAT PERSON -- WE USED TO HAVE A
POSITION AND IT GOT DOWNSIZED AND THEN, IT'S NOT A REFLECTION
ON LORI, BUT IT'S JUST -- THE COUNCIL HAD A SPECIAL
RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT PERSON AS FAR AS TRYING TO PROMOTE THINGS
THAT WE THOUGHT WERE IMPORTANT, AND WE OUGHT TO REVISIT THAT, I
THINK. >> I KIND OF AGREE WITH MR.
BURFOOT, QUICKLY. INSTEAD OF JUST SENDING OUT A
LOT OF NEWS FLASHES, USE THAT ENERGY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE
NEWS PEOPLE AND SAY COME LOOK AT THIS WATER PARK OR WHATEVER.
>> WE JUST HAVE THEM TELL OUR STORY, LET PEOPLE TELL IT FOR
US, AND THAT'S -- WHETHER IT BE SCHOOLS OR ANYTHING ELSE, YOU
KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE USED TO DO, WE USED TO REACT TO
SITUATIONS. I THINK WE NEED TO GET OUT IN
FRONT OF IT AND CONTROL OUR MESSAGE, AND, YOU KNOW, ANY TIME
WE GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, I THINK WE NEED TO DO THAT
MORE, YOU KNOW. CHERYL WASHINGTON WROTE AN
ARTICLE THE OTHER DAY, YOU KNOW, FINALLY BASICALLY SAYING, YOU
KNOW WHAT? WITH ALL THE THING THE CITY HAS
TAKEN, AFTER THE SMOKE IS CLEAR, LOOK AT ALL THE POSITIVE THINGS
THAT ARE HAPPENING. THERE ARE CRANES GOING UP AND
THEY'RE NOT CRANES GOING UP IN OTHER CITIES, BUT THERE ARE
CRANES GOING UP, THERE ARE THINGS HAPPENING IN COMMUNITIES,
AND SO SHE JUST BASICALLY GAVE A PRETTY GOOD ARTICLE OF, YOU
KNOW, A PRETTY GOOD PERSPECTIVE ON WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WE'RE
GOING. I THOUGHT THAT WAS GOOD.
BUT WHAT DID WE DO TO FOLLOW UP, TO GET THAT OUT TO THE MASSES OF
PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT GET TO -- GET THE VIRGINIA PILOT OR
OTHERWISE. THOSE OF THE KINDS OF THINGS
THAT WE HAVE TO DO TO ENTICE PEOPLE TO LOOK AT OUR COMMUNITY.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE. >> OKAY.
FOUR MINUTES. >> ALMOST TIME FOR THE FORMAL
SESSION. >> LAST NIGHT WE HAD A COUPLE OF
MURDERS WE TALKED ABOUT, THE VICE MAYOR TALKED ABOUT IT AND I
KNOW THAT WE HAVE A -- I'M HAPPY THAT WE HAVE A PROGRAM, BUT I
WOULD LIKE TO HEAR -- I'D LIKE THIS COUNCIL TO HEAR FROM HIM ON
HIS POSITION ON WHAT HIS PLANS ARE.
I KNOW HE JUST GOT HERE, BUT I HEAR HE'S QUICK ON HIS FEET,
SO -- BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO HEAR, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT HE HAS PLANNED FOR THE CITY TO BRING DOWN THE MURDER RATE,
TO GET GUNS OFF THE STREET, TO INVOLVE COMMUNITIES, YOU KNOW,
SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALL GET BEHIND, NOT HAVE THESE KIND OF
INCIDENTS CONTINUE TO HAPPEN IN OUR CITY.
BECAUSE THEY'RE UNNECESSARY AND THEY'RE VERY SENSELESS AND I
THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE CAN LESSEN THIS, THIS CAN -- YOU
KNOW, WE CAN HAVE THIS NOT HAPPEN AS MUCH AS IT HAS
HAPPENED IN THE PAST. HAVE SOMEONE ASK ABOUT THE LAKE
TAYLOR TRACT, THAT IT'S NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS -- >> THE WHAT?
>> LAKE TAYLOR TRACK, THE WALKING TRACK, RUNNING TRACK,
AND THEY WERE WANTING TO KNOW IF THE LAKE TAYLOR TRACK COULD HAVE
SIMILAR HOURS TO THE NORVIEW TRACK.
ACTUALLY I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF THOSE COME IN.
IF WE COULD JUST CHECK ON THAT AND JUST SEE WHAT THAT'S ALL
ABOUT? AND LAST WEEK, I WAS MAKING MY
CHRISTMAS VACATION PLANS AND I REALIZED THAT --
>> YOU WERE? >> I WAS.
>> THIS IS JUNE. >> CHRISTMAS IS MY FAVORITE TIME
OF YEAR, RIGHT BEFORE MY BIRTHDAY, BUT I NOTICED THAT
CHRISTMAS EVE AND NEW YEAR'S EVE ARE BOTH ON MONDAY AND USUALLY
WE'RE OPEN HALF A DAY ON CHRISTMAS EVE AND NEW YEAR'S EVE
AND I JUST KIERCHED THOUGHT IT WOULD BE -- KIND OF THOUGHT IT
WOULD BE NICE IF, INSTEAD OF WAITING THE WEEK BEFORE
CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR'S EVE, THAT WE DECIDED EARLY IF WE WERE
GOING TO BE OPEN FOR HALF A DAY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SATURDAY AND
SUNDAY OFF, OPEN FOR HALF A DAY AND BE CLOSED ON TUESDAY.
I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE -- [ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ]
>> WELL, JUST FOR THE EMPLOYEES, I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO GIVE
THEM THE ENTIRE DAY BECAUSE WE NORMALLY GIVE THEM HALF A DAY
ANYWAY AND ANYBODY WHO'S GOT -- JUST GO AHEAD AND, YOU KNOW,
GIVE THEM -- [ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ]
>> YOU KNOW, JUST GIVE THEN THE WHOLE FOUR DAYS.
I THINK IT WOULD BE -- YOU KNOW, ON NEW YEAR'S, CHRISTMAS EVE AND
NEW YEARS. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A WHOLE
LOT THAT GETS DONE ON CHRISTMAS EVE.
>> YOU TAKE ALL THE SURPRISE OUT OF IT.
THE WHOLE WEEK, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.
>> SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE. >> I THINK WHAT ANGELIA SAID
ABOUT -- I DO THINK A COUPLE OF THINGS AND I MENTIONED IT TO
MARCUS THIS MORNING, THAT -- AND I AGREE WITH YOU, ANDY, I THINK
THE MISSION CHIEF, WE OUGHT TO SCHEDULE SOME TIME FOR HIM TO
TALK ABOUT THE COUNCIL ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT IS DOING AND WE'VE ASKED YOU TO DO A BIG JOB HERE,
CHIEF, AND THE THINGS THAT YOU NEED IS GOING TO BE INCUMBENT
UPON US TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE RESOURCES, BUT ALSO
HAVE A TOWN HALL MEETING, INVITE EVERYBODY FROM ACROSS THE CITY
TO COME IN AND MEET OUR NEW CHIEF.
I KNOW, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT KNOW HIM AND SOME PEOPLE --
MIKE HAS BEEN HERE FOREVER, BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF THE CIVIC
LEAGUE PRESIDENTS AND DIFFERENT FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT WE
SOMETIMES CALL COMMUNITY LEADERS THAT WE COULD HAVE A MEETING UP
IN CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS ONE EVENING AND HE COULD JUST COME
AND TALK ABOUT WHAT HIS THOUGHTS ABOUT DEALING WITH PUBLIC SAFETY
ARE AND ABOUT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ANSWER QUESTIONS
AND GET OFF TO A GOOD FOOT. MAYBE JUST AS SOON -- MAYBE YOU
COULD DO THAT IN SEPTEMBER ONCE EVERYBODY IS BACK FROM VACATION
AND STUFF LIKE THAT. BY THE TIME -- JUST HAVE AN
EVENING, BUT THE CHIEF COULD BRING HIS KEY PEOPLE IN, AND
TELL THE COMMUNITY HOW HE INTENDS TO ORGANIZE THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION.
>> ALSO GOOD TO SEE THAT HE'S HERE.
[ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ] >> OKAY.
THAT'S -- WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW.
WE SHOULD DO THAT WITH OUR --EE OUGHT TO ASK THE NEW SCHOOL
SUPERINTENDENT TO MEET WITH EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY.
MAKES A NICE IMPRESSION, REALLY GOOD IMPRESSION.
>> WELL, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, WHAT WE HAVE QUEUED UP FOR TONIGHT IS
PART TWO, A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT WILL COME UP ON THE JULY
10th FORMAL AGENDA, SO I THINK YOU'RE STARTING OFF WITH
CHARACTER DISTRICTS. >> YES.
>> YES, WE'LL START WITH THE EASY ONE AND GO FROM THERE.
AT THE LAST MEETING, CITY COUNCIL ASKED THAT WE COME BACK
WITH A PRESENTATION ON CHARACTER DISTRICTS, SO WE ARE HERE TO TRY
TO DO THEM, DO THAT PRESENTATION, AND THE REALITY OF
THE CHARACTERISTIC DISTRICTS ARE VERY SIMPLE CONCEPT THAT IS ALL
ABOUT MAINTAINING NEIGHBORHOOD QUALITY.
ONE OF THE PREEMINENT CRITIQUES -- OR CRITICS, I
SHOULD SAY, OF PLANNERS IN THE 20th CENTURY WAS JANE JACOBS,
AND MS. JACOBS WROTE THAT PLANNERS NEEDED TO RECOGNIZE
THAT GREAT CITIES ARE NOT MONOLITHS, THEY ARE IN FACT
FEDERATIONS OF NEIGHBORHOODS. AND IF WE'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY
BE RECOGNIZING THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONCEPT, WE NEEDED TO WRITE OUR
REGULATIONS IN WAYS THAT ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPORTANCE OF
NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT
PLANNERS CONTINUE TO HAVE ISSUES WITH TODAY.
THE MOST RECENT CONTINUING EDUCATION CLASS OFFERED BY THE
AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF CERTIFIED PLANNERS WAS A COURSE ON
CHALLENGING -- HOW CHALLENGING IT IS TO MAINTAIN NEIGHBORHOOD
CHARACTER. SO TONIGHT, WHAT I WANT TO DO
FOR YOU IS GIVE YOU A VERY SIMPLE DEFINITION AND BACKGROUND
OF WHAT A CHARACTER DISTRICT IS, DESCRIBE HOW THEY CAN BE USED AS
WELL AS HOW WE WOULD BE PROPOSING TO USE THEM IN
NORFOLK, AND THEN OUTLINE THE BOUNDARIES, WHICH IS THE ISSUE
THAT WOULD BE COMING TO YOU MOST QUICKLY.
WE NEED TO OUTLINE THE BOUNDARIES BECAUSE THOSE WILL
IMPACT A NUMBER OF OTHER ITEMS AND ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO BRING
FORWARD, AND THESE INCLUDE THE UPDATE OF OUR GENERAL PLAN, PLAN
NORFOLK 2030. COUNCIL ASKED US ABOUT THREE
YEARS AGO TO LOOK AT REVISING OUR PARKING REGULATIONS.
IN ORDER TO DO THAT REVISION, WOULD YOU HAVE TO HAVE
BOUNDARIES -- WE HAVE TO HAVE BOUNDARIES AND SIMILARLY, LAST
YEAR WE TALKED ABOUT REVISING OUR OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS AND
IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE NEED TO HAVE BOUNDARIES.
VERY SIMPLY, CHARACTER DISTRIBUTIONS ARE A RECOGNITION
THAT MS. JACOBS WAS RIGHT. ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL.
IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE EFFECTIVE DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS THAT
PROTECT NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER, THEN WE NEED TO TAILOR THOSE
REGULATIONS, TAILOR THOSE STANDARDS TO THE CHARACTER OF
THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND ALL A CHARACTER DISTRICT DOES IS DRAW
THOSE BOUNDARIES AND SAY THESE ARE PLACES THAT ARE SIMILAR TO
THESE PLACES AND THEY ARE DIFFERENT FROM THESE OTHER
PLACES, AND WE NEED TO HAVE REGULATIONS THAT REFLECT THOSE
DIFFERENCES IN ORDER TO PROTECT COMMUNITY CHARACTER.
>> I LIKE THE PICTURE. >> STILL THE DIRECTOR OF THE
ANIMAL CENTER FOR ANOTHER THREE DAYS.
[ LAUGHTER ] >> CHARACTER DISTRICTS HAVE
BECOME SOMETHING THAT MORE AND MORE PLANNERS HAVE GAINED
COMFORT IN DOING. THEY ARE TWO FUNDAMENTAL
PRINCIPLES OF SMART GROWTH, REFLECT THE IDEA OF CHARACTER
DISTRICTS. AND THEY ARE THAT IF WE REALLY
ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HAVING REGULATIONS THAT PROTECT
NEIGHBORHOODS, WE NEED TO HAVE REGULATIONS THAT FOSTER
DISTINCT, ATTRACTIVE COMMUNITIES WITH A SENSE OF PLACE.
IF WE HAVE SMOOTH PEANUT BUTTER APPROACH TO HOW WE REGULATE,
WE'RE GOING TO LOSE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER.
THE OTHER THING THAT THEY HELP DO IS THEY MAKE DEVELOPMENT
DECISIONS PREDICTABLE, FAIR, AND COST EFFECTIVE.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT BOTH THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND DEVELOPERS
WANT. PREDICTABILITY, FAIRNESS, AND
COST EFFECTIVENESS. CHARACTER DISTRICTS ALSO
DIRECTLY RELATE TO TWO OF THE CITY COUNCIL PRIORITY AREAS.
SAFE, HEALTHY AND INCLUSIVE COMMUNITIES.
IF WE VARY OUR REGULATIONS BY AREA TO REFLECT THE CHARACTER OF
THOSE COMMUNITIES, WE ARE HELPING MAKE THOSE COMMUNITIES
BE COMMUNITIES IN WHICH PEOPLE CHOOSE TO LIVE, NOT HAVE TO
LIVE. AND THEY ALSO REFLECT -- ARE
REFLECTED IN THE COUNCIL PRIORITY OF A WELL-MANAGED
GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE WE CAN USE THESE REGULATIONS TO PROVIDE
CERTAINTY FOR DEVELOPMENT DECISIONS SO THAT WE'RE NOT
CONSTANTLY BEING ASKED TO WAIVE SOME STANDARDS OR SOME
REGULATIONS. A COUPLE PLACES THAT HAVE USED
CHARACTER DISTRICTS IN THE PAST, THAT HAVE TAKEN VERY DIFFERENT
APPROACHES TO HOW THEY DO, PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA, DIVIDED
THE ENTIRE COUNTY. IT'S THE LARGEST COUNTY EAST OF
THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER -- INTO A SERIES OF CHARACTER DISTRICTS
RANGING FROM REDEVELOPMENT AREAS, URBAN, SUBURBAN, RURAL,
EX-URBAN, AND AGRICULTURE AND THEY ONLY APPLIED THEM IN TWO
AREAS. A LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT THEY
WOULD -- THE CITY WOULD PROVIDE, OR THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WOULD
PROVIDE, AND THE PATTERNS OF DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS FOR PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT. SO THAT YOU HAD DIFFERENT LEVELS
OF OPEN SPACE REQUIRED AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT
LEVELS OF SERVICE, YOU HAVE SOME WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE RELYING
ON MORE URBAN SERVICES AND SOME WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SAY,
YOU'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH VERY RURAL STANDARDS FOR
DEVELOPMENT. DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, WHEN I
WAS THERE, SEIZED ON THIS CONCEPT OF CHARACTER DISTRICTS
AND THE ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS BECAME SO ENAMORED
OF IT, THEY SAID WE WANT TO REWRITE ALL OUR DEVELOPMENT
ORDINANCES, OUR GENERAL PLAN, EVERY BIT OF IT NEEDS TO REFLECT
THIS IDEA BECAUSE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE IMPORTANT.
AND SO WE REWROTE ALL THE DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS THERE TO
REFLECT THE IDEA OF A DOWNTOWN, TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT.
URBAN AREA, SUB SUSH BAN AREA, AND RURAL AREAS.
NOW, IN NORFOLK, THE ISSUE FIRST CAME UP WHEN WE DISCUSSED OUR
PARKING REGULATIONS AND CITY COUNCIL EXPRESSED CONCERN BACK
IN 2009. WE SAID WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
OUR PARKING REGULATIONS BECAUSE WE'RE APPLYING SUBURBAN
STANDARDS DEVELOPED BY ITE IN THE 1980s, AND WE'RE APPLYING
THEM CITYWIDE. THAT'S GRIT IN URBAN AREAS --
GREAT IN URBAN AREAS OF THE CITY, BUT WE HAVE DIFFERENT
AREAS OF THE CITY AND WE NEED DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR THAT.
SO IN 2011, WE CAME BACK TO YOU WITH A PRESENTATION OUTLINE HOW
WE COULD DO THIS. WE USED RESEARCH FROM ITE,
INSTITUTE OF TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERS, THE AMERICAN PLANNING
ASSOCIATION, THE NATIONAL PARKING ASSOCIATION, THE URBAN
LAND INSTITUTE AND RAIL VOLUME LOOTION AND WE WANT THE --
VOLUTION AND WE WANT THE BEST PRACTICES AND THE BEST STANDARDS
DONE AROUND THE CITY AND WE RECOGNIZED THAT DIFFERENT AREAS
OF THE CITY REQUIRE DIFFERENT AREAS OF PARKING, SO WE PROPOSED
THESE LEVELS OF PARKING AS REQUIREMENTS TO REVISE
REGULATIONS, BUT AM ORDER TO ACHIEVE THIS, WE NEED
BOUNDARIES. THIS CAME UP AGAIN LAST YEAR
WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT OPEN SPACE. COUNCIL HAS ASKED FOR AN
EVALUATION OF ISSUES WITH MULTIFAMILY HOUSING AND WHAT WE
SAW, BY LOOKING AT DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE
TO SEE A DEMAND FOR THIS KIND OF HOUSING, BUT HISTORICALLY, WE
HAD TWO PROBLEMS IN NORFOLK WITH MULTIFAMILY HOUSING.
INADEQUATE OPEN SPACE, INADEQUATE PARKING.
AND SO WE RECOMMENDED VARYING THE STANDARDS FOR OPEN SPACE BY
AREA OF THE CITY AND APPLYING THE PARKING STANDARDS THAT WE
ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IN THE PARKING PRESENTATION, AND WHAT
WE DID IS WE RESEARCHED THE PARKING -- OR THE OPEN SPACE
REQUIREMENTS, THE CITY COUNCIL HAD APPLIED OVER THE PAST TEN
YEARS, AND WE COMPARED OUR STANDARDS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE
WITH THE STANDARDS OF SIMILAR SIZE CITIES IN THE REGION, AND
WE SAID WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO IS REWRITE THE DEFINITION OF OPEN
SPACE AND THEN VARY THE STANDARDS BASED ON WHERE IN THE
CITY IT'S LOCATED. AGAIN, YOU NEED A MAP, YOU'VE
GOT TO HAVE BOUNDARIES TO DO THIS, AND ONCE WE DO THIS, LET'S
ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF WAIVERS, SO PEOPLE HAVE
CERTAINTY OF WHAT'S EXPECTED. WITH THAT INFORMATION AND THE
DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL TO MOVE FORWARD IN THESE TWO AREAS, WE
BEGAN TRYING TO DEFINE WHERE WE WOULD ACTUALLY RECOMMEND PUTTING
THE BOUNDARIES. AND THE ANNEXATION MAPS OF THE
CITY BEGAN TO SUGGEST A PATTERN. THE PURPLE AREA ON THIS GRAPHIC
ARE THE CITY LIMITS OF THE CITY OF NORFOLK IN 1850.
THE ORANGE REFLECTS WHAT WAS IN THE CITY AS OF 1925 AND THE
YELLOW IS WHAT'S BEEN ANNEXED SINCE 1925.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT JUST THAT MAP WITH THOSE GRAPHICS, IT BEGINS
TO SUGGEST SOME OF THE AREAS, SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH VARYING
DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS. AND IN ORDER TO CHECK IF THAT
WAS ACCURATE, WE WENT IN AND WE ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE
DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS AND THINGS THAT WE COULD SAY ARE ACCURATE
ABOUT OUR CITY IN DIFFERENT AREAS, AND OUR DOWNTOWN, WE HAVE
A RANGE OF HIGH-INTENSITY USES, ALL MIXED TOGETHER.
THERE IS NO REAL SEPARATION OF USE.
BUT WE HAVE VIRTUALLY NO YARD AREAS.
HOUSES ARE BUILT RIGHT UP TO THE STREET.
BUILDINGS ARE BUILT RIGHT UP TO THE STREET.
THERE'S LIMITED PARKING AND THERE IS WIDESPREAD PEDESTRIAN
AND TRANSIT ACCESSIBILITY. IF OUR MORE URBAN AREAS, THE
AREAS BUILT FROM 1925, WE HAVE A MIX OF USES, BUT THEY'RE NOT AS
INTENSIVE AS THEY ARE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREAS.
THERE'S SOME SEPARATION, BUT NOT A GREAT SEPARATION.
THEY ARE CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER. YOU HAVE A PATTERN OF LOTS AND
YARDS, BUT THEY ARE NOT LARGE, THEY'RE FAIRLY SMALL.
AND YOU TEND TO HAVE A FAIRLY REGULAR STREET PATTERN.
IN THE SUBURBAN AREAS OF THE CITY, YOU SEE THE RESULTS OF
PLANNING AND ZONING SINCE 1925, GREAT SEPARATION OF USES, LARGE
LOTS, CURVILINEAR STREETS, AND MORE AUTO-DEPENDENT USES, SO
THERE'S LARGER PARKING LOTS. IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE
DIFFERENCE, YOU CAN LOOK AT DOWNTOWN AREA, LARGER BUILDINGS,
MORE BUILT TO THE STREET, NOT A LOT OF AREAS AVAILABLE FOR
PARKING. IN THE URBAN AREAS, NOTHING LIKE
THE PLATE YOU HAVE IN DOWNTOWN AND IN SUBURBAN, YOU SEE THE
BUILDINGS ALL PUSHED FURTHER AWAY FROM THE STREET, REFLECTING
MORE PARKING AS WELL AS THE LIGHTING PATTERNS.
AND ALL OF THESE ARE FOR NORFOLK, IN CASE YOU'RE ASKING.
AND SO WITH THAT, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT CAME IN AND WENT TO
THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND WE MODIFIED THAT ANNEXATION MAP OF
THE CITY. WE SUGGESTED TO THE PLANNING
COMMISSION THAT EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER BEEN COVERED BY A
DOWNTOWN PLAN OR THAT HAD DOWNTOWN ZONING, SHOULD BE
CONSIDERED PART OF DOWNTOWN. AND THAT'S WHAT IS REFLECTED IN
THE PURPLE ON THIS MAP. THEN WE SAID THAT THE SUBURBAN
AREAS SHOULD REALLY BE EVERYTHING THAT WAS ANNEXED
AFTER 1925 ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS, BUT ALSO WE
NOTICED NORTH OF LAFAYETTE RIVER, YOU'VE GOT A DIFFERENT
PATTERN THAN YOU DO ON THE SOUTHSIDE, SO WE SAID THAT, EVEN
THOUGH IT WAS ANNEXED PRIOR TO 1925, LOOKS MORE SUBURBAN IN
IT'S OVERALL PATTERN THAT WHAT IS ON THE SOUTHSIDE OF THE RIVER
AND WE ALSO NOTED THAT LAFAYETTE SHORES, THAT WAS REDEVELOPED IN
THE '80s AND '90s, TOTALLY DIFFERENT PATTERN FROM THE REST
OF THE URBAN AREAS OF THE CITY. IT IS MORE SUBURBAN.
SO THIS IS THE NAP WE CARRIED TO THE -- MAP WE CARRIED TO THE
PLANNING COMMISSION AND OUR RECOMMENDATION ON A PURELY
TECHNICAL BASIS. THE PLANNING COMMISSION SAW THAT
MAP AND MADE TWO CHANGES TO IT. THEY SAID THAT THE AREA OF THE
ST. PAUL'S AREA THAT IS ON THE WEST SIDE OF CHURCH STREET UP TO
VIRGINIA BEACH BOULEVARD, OUGHT TO BE PART OF DOWNTOWN.
WE OUGHT TO BE LOOKING TO ENCOURAGE A DEVELOPMENT PATTERN
IN THAT AREA THAT WOULD BE MORE CONDUCIVE TO DOWNTOWN AND THEY
SAID THE EAST BEACH AREA IS NOT SUBURBAN.
IT HAS BEEN REDEVELOPED IN A VERY URBAN PATTERN, SO THAT
OUGHT TO BE TREATED AS AN URBAN AREA.
SO THESE WERE THE TWO MODIFICATIONS THE PLANNING
COMMISSION MADE. AND WITH THAT INFORMATION, WE
TOOK THIS GRAPHIC OUT TO A SERIES OF COMMUNITY MEETINGS AS
PART OF PLAN NORFOLK 2030. AND WE CARRIED THIS OUT TO SIX
COMMUNITY MEETINGS, SCATTERED ALL OVER THE CITY, SOUTHSIDE,
OCEAN VIEW, OR EAST SIDE OF THE CITY, THE FAR WEST SIDE OF THE
CITY, AND THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY, AND WE GOT INPUT AND MOST
OF THE INPUT THAT WE GOT SUGGESTED THAT A BOUNDARY CHANGE
CAME FROM THE GHENT NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE AND THEIR ORIGINAL
PROPOSAL WAS YOU MADE DOWNTOWN WAY TOO BIG.
EVERYTHING ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BRAMBLETON OUGHT TO BE URBAN AND
EVERYTHING WEST OF BOUSH STREET OUGHT TO BE URBAN AND NOT
DOWNTOWN. AND AFTER WE GOT THAT, I WAS
INVITED TO MEET WITH THE BUSINESS ASSOCIATIONS, THE
NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUES, THE FREEMASON'S STREET ASSOCIATION
ASKED ME TO MEET WITH THEM AND THE DOWNTOWN NORFOLK COUNCIL
INVITED ME TO COME AND PRESENT THIS INFORMATION TO THEM, SO WE
HAD THOSE MEETINGS AND AS A RESULT OF THOSE MEETINGS OF THE
GHENT NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE AND THE GHENT BUSINESS ASSOCIATION,
CAME BACK WITH A MODIFIED PROPOSAL.
AND THAT IS BECAUSE FREEMASON SAID WE'RE MORE LIKE DOWNTOWN
THAN WE ARE LIKE THE URBAN AREAS, FREEMASON SAID WE WANT TO
BE IN DOWNTOWN. THEY REVISED THE BOUNDARY OF
WHAT THEY HAD CALLED DOWNTOWN TO INCLUDE ALL OF FORT NORFOLK, THE
FREEMASON AREA ON THE WEST SIDE OF BOUSH STREET, AND THEN ON THE
NORTH SIDE OF BRAMBLETON, THEY WERE WILLING TO INCLUDE
EVERYTHING UP TO VIRGINIA BEACH BOULEVARD.
THEY WERE TAKING OUT THE CHRYSLER MUSEUM, THE RED CROSS
OFFICE, HARRISON OPERA, THE G-1 DISTRICT, WHICH IS A PART OF THE
DOWNTOWN ACCORDING TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AND THE HAGUE TOWER
AND THE HAGUE OFFICE BUILDING, THE HAGUE MEDICAL CENTER.
AFTER THAT, DNC, GBA, AND GNL JOINED TOGETHER WHERE THEY HAD A
MEETING WHERE THEY TRIED TO REACH COMPROMISE.
THE COMPROMISE THEY REACHED AND CAME FORWARD WITH WAS TO INSERT
BACK IN THE PORTION OF THE G-1 AREA SOUTH OF PRINCESS ANNE AND
MAKE THAT ALSO PART OF DOWNTOWN. SO THIS WAS THE COMPROMISE
PROPOSAL PRESENTED, TAKING THE G-1 AREA NORTH OF PRINCESS ANNE
OUT OF DOWNTOWN. THE HARRISON OPERA, THE CHRYSLER
MUSEUM, THE RED CROSS BUILDING, HAGUE TOWER AND THE HAGUE
MEDICAL CENTER. THIS WAS THE COMPROMISE
DECISION. SO --
>> DO THOSE STAY DOWNTOWN? >> THESE AREAS --
>> THE HAGUE -- >> NO, THOSE WERE -- THE
COMPROMISE POSITION THAT WAS PRESENTED, THIS WAS PRESENTED AT
THE PLANNING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING, AND AT THE PLANNING
COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING, THIS WAS BROUGHT FORWARD WITH A
RECOMMENDATION OF THESE AREAS THAT ARE SHOWN CROSS-HATCHED
COME OUT OF DOWNTOWN. >> SO YOU'RE REMOVING THE HAGUE
TOWERS, RED CROSS, CHRYSLER, HARRISON, ALL OF THIS BASED ON
THIS PROPOSAL -- >> THEY WOULD NOT BE PART OF
DOWNTOWN, YES, SIR. THAT WAS WHAT WAS PRESENTED AS
THE COMPROMISE PROPOSAL AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION PUBLIC
HEARING AND WITH THOSE BOUNDARIES AT THE PUBLIC
HEARING, WE HAD NO OPPOSITION TO THE WHOLE ISSUE AND WAS WE HAD
WAS SUPPORT FROM THE DOWNTOWN NORFOLK COUNCIL, THE GHENT
BUSINESS ASSOCIATION AND THE GHENT NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE.
WE HAD ONE MEMBER OF THE CPC WHO OBJECTED TO THESE BOUNDARIES AND
HE OFFERED AN ALTERNATE PROPOSAL WHICH WOULD PUT THE HAGUE TOWERS
AND THE HAGUE MEDICAL CENTER BACK IN DOWNTOWN.
THAT MOTION WAS MADE AND SECONDED AND IT WAS REJECTED BY
THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON A 2-5 VOTE.
WHICH MEANT THAT THE BOUNDARIES THAT WERE THE ACTUAL
RECOMMENDATION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THEIR PUBLIC
HEARING WAS THE COMPROMISE PROPOSAL, AND THE SUPPORT WAS,
SURELY BECAUSE THIS IS A COMPROMISE, THAT WE HAVE A
CONSENSUS AMONG THESE GROUPS. NOW, LET ME TELL YOU THERE WERE
NO OTHER ISSUES WITH THE WHOLE CONCEPT EXCEPT HERE.
THE BOUNDARIES DOWNTOWN WERE THE ONLY ISSUE.
AND THE ONE PERSON WHO VOTED AGAINST IT ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE
WAS VOTING AGAINST IT BECAUSE HE HAD INTEREST IN THE PROPERTY
THAT WAS BEING REMOVED. AND I WILL ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT
I RECOMMENDED THE COMPROMISE POSITION BECAUSE IT APPEARS TO
BE A COMMUNITY CONSENSUS. AND THAT COMMUNITY CONSENSUS
WENT AWAY ALMOST IMMEDIATELY. DNC WITHDREW THEIR SUPPORT AND
ONCE DNC WITHDREW THEIR SUPPORT, DR. WHIBLEY AND MR. WINN TRIED
TO SCHEDULE A BEING WITH ALL THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN COMPROMISE,
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND I HAVE ATTENDED
MEETINGS AS WELL OF THE GHENT NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE AND THE
DOWNTOWN NORFOLK CIVIC LEAGUE TO LAY OUT ALL OF THESE ISSUES.
SO AS A REMINDER, WHAT YOU WILL HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU WHEN YOU
ACTUALLY HAVE THIS ITEM IN THE PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS, WOULD BE
THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION.
THIS WOULD BE THE OVERALL CITYWIDE BOUNDARIES THAT WOULD
BE PROPOSED, AND THE BLOW-UP IS THE DOWNTOWN AREA BECAUSE THAT'S
WHERE THE ISSUES ARE WITH REGARD TO THE ISSUE, AGAIN, THE
MAJORITY BASED THEIR SUPPORT ON THE FACT THAT THIS SEEMED TO
REPRESENT A COMMUNITY CONSENSUS. AND THE MINORITY WAS CONCERNED
BECAUSE OF AN INTEREST IN PROPERTY THAT WAS BEING REMOVED
FROM THE DOWNTOWN AREA. >> THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF
PARKING IN THE PIECE, THE HAGUE TOWER PIECE, IS THAT -- WHAT'S
THE PARKING THERE? >> IF IT GOES INTO THE DOWNTOWN
AREA -- I'M SORRY, INTO THE URBAN AREA, IT WOULD REQUIRE
PROBABLY 80% OF A STANDARD SUBURBAN PARKING REQUIREMENT AND
IF IT WAS IN THE DOWNTOWN, IT WOULD BE CLOSER TO 70%.
SAME THING FOR THE OFFICE BUILDING.
NOW, IF YOU WANTED TO GO BEYOND JUST PARKING AND OPEN SPACE,
WHICH ARE THE ONLY TWO THINGS THAT WE HAVE DEALT WITH THROUGH
THIS, IT CAN HAVE GREATER REPERCUSSIONS BECAUSE THEN YOU
MAY CHOOSE TO DEAL WITH THINGS LIKE BUILDING HOT ZONES, THING
BEYOND OPEN SPACE, YOUR FLOOR AREA RATIOS, SO IT COULD RIPPLE
THROUGH. THE ONLY TWO THAT THE COUNCIL
HAS INDICATED TO ME TO DATE THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN MOVING
FORWARD WITH ARE PARKING AND OPEN SPACE.
>> SO FOR THE AREAS OF CONCERN, WHAT IS THE ARGUMENT THAT --
WHAT IS THE DAMAGE THAT IS DONE TO SOMEBODY POTENTIALLY TRYING
TO DEVELOP THOSE PROPERTIES IF IT IS URBAN VERSUS SUBURBAN --
OR VERSUS DOWNTOWN? >> AGAIN, IT GETS BACK TO HOW
EXPENSIVELY CITY COUNCIL WOULD WANT -- EXTENSIVELY CITY COUNCIL
WOULD WANT TO APPLY THIS CONCEPT.
THESE PROPERTIES RIGHT NOW -- >> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS FOR
US AS A VOTE, RIGHT? >> CORRECT.
>> IS THERE A PROPOSED CHANGE IN THAT?
>> NOT AT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO GET THE BOUNDARIES
IN PLACE WHERE WE CAN BEGIN DEALING WITH THE REST OF THE
REGULATIONS. BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO HAVE
BOUNDARIES IN ORDER TO DEFINE THE REGULATIONS.
ALL YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU OR WILL HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU AS
PLAN AMENDMENT THAT WE WILL HAVE A BASIS FOR THE ZONING ORDINANCE
CHANGES THAT WOULD FOLLOW. THE POTENTIAL DOWN SIDE TO THESE
PROPERTIES, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIVE PROPERTIES THAT ARE
PROPOSED TO COME OUT, HARRISON -- THE G-1, YOU CAN
JUST SHIFT FROM BEING A DOWNTOWN DISTRICT TO A SPECIAL PURPOSE
DISTRICT, NO HARM, NO FOUL. THE HARRISON OPERA AND THE
CHRYSLER MUSEUM COULD BE CONVERTED FROM DOWNTOWN ZONING
TO INSTITUTIONAL ZONING. GIVEN WHAT THEY ARE, NO HARM, NO
FOUL. THE RED CROSS BUILDING,
CURRENTLY ZONED DOWNTOWN, YOU WOULD NEED TO REZONE THAT TO AN
OFFICE USE WHICH COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE IMPACTS FOR
REDEVELOPMENT. THE BIGGER ISSUES YOU'VE GOT ARE
THE HAGUE TOWER AND THE HAGUE MEDICAL CENTER.
I DON'T REALLY HAVE A ZONING DISTRICT IN THE CITY THAT WOULD
COVER THE HAGUE TOWER. UNLESS IT'S DOWNTOWN.
>> WHAT IS IT NOW? >> DOWNTOWN.
>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS, WHAT IS THE LIMIT IF THERE'S A CHANGE?
HOW DOES THAT IMPACT SOMEBODY THAT BUYS IT?
WHY ARE PEOPLE ARGUING THEY DON'T WANT A CHANGE?
WHAT'S GOING TO HURT THEM? >> IT ALL COMES BACK TO HOW
PROGRESSIVE, HOW FAR CITY COUNCIL WOULD BE INTERESTED IN
GOING WITH THESE REGULATIONS. IF YOU SAID WE WANT TO ENSURE
THAT NOTHING THAT IS NOT PART OF DOWNTOWN THROUGH THESE PLAN
AMENDMENTS IS ZONED DOWNTOWN, WE HAVE TO FIND ZONING DISTRICTS
THAT WOULD COVER THESE BUILDINGS AND I DON'T HAVE A ZONING
DISTRICT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT WOULD ADDRESS THE INTENSITY
OF THE HAGUE TOWER. THAT'S A PROBLEM.
>> WE HAVE TO BE FLEXIBLE. >> I AGREE.
>> OKAY? I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS -- I
MEAN, WHERE WE WERE YESTERDAY AS A CITY AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY,
AND THE FOLK THAT ARE COMING IN TOWN AND LOOK AT INVESTING AND,
YOU KNOW, WE TRADITIONALLY, WE DIDN'T GO OVER X-NUMBER OF
FLOORS OR -- AND NOW YOU GOT BUILDINGS, I REMEMBER WHEN THE
GRANBY TOWER WAS COMING, I FORGET HOW MANY FLOORS.
I THINK IT WAS LIKE 20 -- WOULD HAVE BEEN THE TALLEST BUILDING
IN THIS AREA, AND SO WE HAD TO SOMEWHAT ADAPT TO, YOU KNOW,
THOSE TYPES OF CHANGES. SO, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT --
I WOULD HOPE THAT WE'RE NOT SO ETCHED IN STONE WHEREAS IT
CREATES A PROBLEM OR AN IMPEDIMENT FOR US AT THE CITY TO
BE ABLE TO BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS. >> AND I THINK WE DO NEED TO BE
OPEN FOR BUSINESS, BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS WE DO NEED TO
PROVIDE SOME CERTAINTY. BECAUSE I SHARE YOUR CONCERN,
PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO THESE TWO BUILDINGS.
MY PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION, MY PROFESSIONAL RECOMMENDATION TO
YOU WOULD BE THAT THE TWO PROPERTY, THE HAGUE MEDICAL
CENTER AND THE HAGUE TOWERS, REALLY DO BELONG AS PART OF
DOWNTOWN. I SAID THAT IN THE MEETINGS WITH
THE GHENT NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE AS WELL AS WITH THE DOWNTOWN
NORFOLK COUNCIL, AND MY REASONING FOR THAT IS LOOKING AT
THE CHARACTER OF THE DEVELOPMENT, THE HAGUE TOWER IS
MUCH TALLER THAN OTHER BUILDINGS IN THE AREA, AND I ALSO LOOK AT
THE HISTORY. IT HAS BEEN PART OF DOWNTOWN.
THESE PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN PART OF DOWNTOWN.
THEY ARE ZONED AS PART OF DOWNTOWN, AND EVERY MASTER PLAN
THAT WE'VE DONE FOR DOWNTOWN SINCE THE 1980s HAS INCLUDED
THESE PROPERTIES. MY RECOMMENDATION TO YOU WOULD
BE TO INCLUDE THESE PROPERTIES, BUT THEN I DO NEED TO, AGAIN,
ACKNOWLEDGE THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION IS
NOT TO DO SO. SO THIS IS THE MAP THAT WOULD BE
IN PLACE AND BEFORE YOU WHEN YOU ACTUALLY ARE VOTING ON THIS.
THE NEXT STEPS IN THIS PROCESS, FOR CITY COUNCIL TO SET PUBLIC
HEARING, WHICH I'M HOPING WE CAN DO TO JULY 10th, AND YOUR PUBLIC
HEARING WOULD FOLLOW PRESUMABLY IN AUGUST AND ONCE WE HAVE THE
BOUNDARIES DETERMINED BY CITY COUNCIL ACTION, WHEN WE WOULD BE
ABLE TO BEGIN MOVING FORWARD WITH THE PARKING AND OPEN SPACE
REVISIONS. WE HAVE COMPLETED THE WORK PLAN
NORFOLK 2030. THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS
COMPLETED THEIR WORK AND IT HAS BEEN SENT TO THE VIRGINIA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOR THEIR REVIEW, WHICH MEANS THAT
WE PRESUMABLY WOULD BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE UPDATED
GENERAL PLAN LATER THIS FALL. >> YOU MENTIONED THE RED CROSS
AND YOU SAID THIS NEW DESIGNATION IN THIS CHARACTER
DISTRICT IS -- COULD CONCEIVABLY IMPACT ITS REDEVELOPMENT BECAUSE
YOU'RE GOING TO REQUIRE MORE PARKING THERE THAN PRESENTLY.
IS THAT RIGHT? >> WELL, RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE
MORE THAN MEETING THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW
WE'RE APPLYING A VERY SUBURBAN STANDARD.
>> WELL, WHAT IN YOUR MIND WOULD IMPACT THAT?
>> POTENTIALLY, HEIGHT. >> YOU SEE, WHAT I'M -- OKAY.
>> I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT, THAT -- I THINK THAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LOWERING PARKING STANDARDS EVERYWHERE SO
THAT FOR ANY DEVELOPER, THEY WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE
GREATER, SO THE ONLY OPPOSITION WOULD COME FROM MAYBE NEIGHBORS
WHO THOUGHT THAT THE LOWER STANDARD MIGHT IMPINGE ON THEM,
BUT I THINK YOU'RE LOWERING PARKING EVERYWHERE AND LOWERING
OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS EVERYWHERE, AND THAT'S ALL THAT
IS ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW SO THAT WE MAY BE OVERCOMPLICATING
IT. >> OKAY, BUT WE ALREADY HAD SOME
HEIGHT ISSUES, I MEAN, THAT WE ALREADY ADDRESSED SOME OF THOSE
HEIGHT ISSUES IN THE OLD FORT NORFOLK PLAN.
>> RIGHT. >> OVER THERE, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT. >> LET'S MOVE OVER TO THE HAGUE
AND YOUR PROFESSIONAL RECOMMENDATION IS THAT IT BE
PART OF THE DOWNTOWN PLANNISM YES.
>> AND THAT HAS PARKING IMPLICATIONS, RIGHT?
>> IT DOES. >> AND BECAUSE IF IT STAYS IN
THE DOWNTOWN PLAN, IT WILL -- IT DOESN'T NEED AS MANY PARKING
SPACES. >> IT WOULD NEED ROUGHLY
TWO-THIRDS TO THREE-QUARTERS, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT FROM AN
OFFICE BUILDING USE. RIGHT NOW, THE REQUIREMENT IS
FOUR SPACES PER THOUSAND SQUARE FEET AND IT WOULD CHANGE TO
THREE SPACES. >> THE ARGUMENT THAT THE GHENT
NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE HAS AGAINST THE DOWNTOWN DESIGNATION FOR THE
HAGUE MEDICAL CENTER IS THAT THEY'RE WORRIED THAT THE PLACE,
IT'S FOR SALE NOW, COULD BE REDEVELOPED AND WITH A VERY TALL
BUILDING THAT PEOPLE THAT LIVE ACROSS THE STREET DO NOT WISH TO
HAVE THERE. IS THAT IN FACT, TRUE?
>> THE HAGUE MEDICAL CENTER IS NOT FOR SALE.
>> I'M JUST SAYING IF IT IS. >> IF IS WAS TO BE SOLD OR THEY
DID WANT TO REDEVELOP IT, RIGHT NOW THEY COULD GO UP WITH A MUCH
TALLER BUILDING THAN THEY HAVE NOW.
I WANT TO SAY POSSIBLY AS HIGH AS EIGHT TO TEN STORIES RIGHT
NOW, PROVIDED THEY DEALT WITH STRUCTURED PARKING, SO THE
HEIGHT ISSUE TO ME IS LESS OF A CONCERN BECAUSE THEY ALREADY DO
HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO GREATER HEIGHT THAN EXISTS ON THAT
PROPERTY RIGHT NOW. >> AND IF IT WAS AN URBAN
CENTER, URBAN DESIGNATION, HOW TALL COULD THEY GO?
>> AGAIN, IT WOULD DEPEND ON HOW WE -- WHAT ZONING DISTRICT WE
PUT THEM IN, BUT IT COULD BE REDUCED --
>> FRANK, PART OF THIS IS HOW WE VOTE.
>> RIGHT. >> I NEED TO KNOW THIS TO VOTE,
SO NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME I'M GOING TO VOTE AND I'M NOT GOING
TO KNOW, BECAUSE THEN LATER ON WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE -- DECIDE
ON THE ZONING. >> AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT
THE CHALLENGE I'VE GOT IS THAT HEIGHT RIGHT NOW IS NOT A
FACTOR. EXACTLY AS MR. PISHKO SAID.
THE ONLY THINGS THAT ARE A FACTOR ARE PARKING AND OPEN
SPACES, SO WE'RE TALKING IN THE URBAN -- OR THE DOWNTOWN -- IT
IS THE NEIGHBORS, THE PEOPLE, AND THEY TELL ME THEIR CONCERN
IS WITH POTENTIAL HEIGHT, WHICH IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT IS ON THE
TABLE AT THIS POINT. HEIGHT DOES NOT BECOME A FACTOR
UNLESS YOU SAY WE WANT TO CHANGE THE UNDERLYING ZONING, WHICH FOR
THESE PROPERTIES IS STILL DOWNTOWN, TO SOMETHING MORE
REFLECTIVE OF THE URBAN SETTING. PARKING STANDARD IN URBAN IS
ROUGHLY 80% OF THE CURRENT STANDARD, AND BECAUSE YOU WOULD
ROUND IT DOWN, 80% OF FOUR, WE STILL GIVE YOU THREE PARKING
SPACES. >> BUT AN URBAN DOESN'T --
YOU'RE TALKING URBAN. URBAN IS HEIGHT TOO.
I MEAN, WHAT -- >> IT'S GOING TO BE TALLER THAN
SUBURBAN. >> RIGHT.
>> BUT NOT AS TALL AS DOWNTOWN. >> BUT DO YOU HAVE A
CLASSIFICATION -- I MEAN, DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE THAT
CLASSIFICATION THAT WOULD SPEAK TO -- YOU HAVE TO CREATE THAT?
>> NO, YOU WOULD HAVE TO CREATE THAT ISSUE.
>> RIGHT. >> BUT YOU'VE LEFT -- I DON'T
KNOW WE WOULDN'T TAKE THE PRIVATE PIECE OF PROPERTY WITH
THE NEGATIVE IMPACT OUT OF THE DOWNTOWN THAT'S IN THERE NOW AND
GO WITH THE REST OF IT. >> THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE
RECOMMENDING IT, BUT NOT WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS
RECOMMENDING. >> IT IS IMPORTANT TO
ACKNOWLEDGE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION WAS
BASED ON A PERCEPTION THAT YOU HAD WIDESPREAD COMMUNITY
SUPPORT, AND THAT BEGAN TO FALL APART WITHIN HOURS OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION VOTE. >> THE OTHER CONSIDERATION, YOU
STARTED OFF BY SAYING SOMETHING I THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT, THE
ISSUE ABOUT PREDICTABILITY AND FAIRNESS, I MEAN, IF PEOPLE
INVEST SIGNIFICANT DOLLARS INTO A PRY VAS PETE OF PROPERTY AND
WE COME IN -- PRIVATE PIECE OF PROPERTY AND WE COME IN BECAUSE
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT LAND OWNERS OR PEOPLE WHO JUST HAVE CONCERNS
ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, PEOPLE
WHO MADE INVESTMENTS THERE HAVE A RIGHT TO RELY ON SOME FAIRNESS
AND SOME PREDICTABILITY AS WELL AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM
HAVE -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO PULL THEIR PARKING AFTER THEY
PURCHASE THE PROPERTY, THAT'S NOT -- IN MY HUMBLE OPINION,
YOU'RE DIMINISHING THE VALUE OF WHAT THEY CAN DEVELOP THERE, AND
SO I -- I MEAN, THAT'S A REAL CONCERN OF MINE.
I THINK YOU OUGHT TO -- I LIKE WHAT YOU'VE -- YOUR PROFESSIONAL
OPINION. WHEN WE GET TO ACTUALLY WHERE
WE'RE GOING TO VOTE ON SOMETHING, I'D LIKE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CAN VOTE FOR THE
PLANNING, WE CAN ALL DECLARE WE'RE FOR THE PLANNING
COMMISSION PIECE OR WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL.
>> WE GO FOR GO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGREED TO OR FRANK'S
NEW ALTERNATIVE, WHAT FRANK ORIGINALLY PROPOSED FOR
PLANNING, BUT NOW THIS -- >> WITH YOURS, IT JUST APPEARS
TO ME THAT IT GIVES US FLEXIBILITY.
>> I WOULD AGREE. >> IS THERE ANY DISADVANTAGE IN
DOING THIS NOW BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH A NARROW SCOPE, LATER ARE
THERE THINGS THAT MIGHT COME UP, I.E., RECREATION,
TRANSPORTATION, ANYTHING, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE ARE -- I
THINK PAUL REFERRED TO IT AS LATER STUBBING OUR TOE ON
BECAUSE WE ALREADY MADE THIS -- ALREADY VOTED THIS IN AND THEN
LATER CHANGES WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO DO.
>> I PERSONALLY DON'T -- THE GHENT NEIGHBORHOOD LEAGUE ASKED
ME WHAT ADVANTAGES I SAW TO DOING THIS AND WHAT
DISADVANTAGES. WELL, THE ADVANTAGE I SEE, IT IS
THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO PROTECT NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER.
IT DOES, AS MR. BURFOOT, INDICATED, IT DOES GIVE YOU SOME
ADDITIONAL FLEXIBILITY, THE DEVELOPER SOME ADDITIONAL FLEX
ISN'T, BUT IT GIVES -- FLEXIBILITY, BUT IT GIVES THE
NEIGHBORHOOD CERTAINTY. ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT,
WHY YOU ASKED ME TO LOOK AT PARKING AND OPEN SPACES, BECAUSE
YOU ALLOW THEM TO BE WAIVED. ROUTINELY, ANY TIME ANYONE HAS
ASKED FOR WAIVERS, THEY HAVE BEEN GRANTED.
MR. BURFOOT SAID THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY TO DO THIS, FIND A
BETTER WAY TO DO IT. I THINK IT OFFERS DEVELOPERS
CERTAINTY AND NEIGHBORHOODS CERTAINTY.
IS THERE A DOWN SIDE TO DOING THIS?
I HAVE YET TO IDENTIFY ONE. I DON'T SEE A DOWN SIDE TO IT.
>> [ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ]
>> IF YOU WANTED TO PUT THE THREE PRIVATE PIECES OF PROPERTY
BACK INTO DOWNTOWN, I STILL DON'T SEE A DISADVANTAGE TO
DOING THAT BECAUSE THOSE PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN
EVERY DOWNTOWN PLAN WE'VE EVER DONE.
THEY ARE ZONED DOWNTOWN AND I THINK THEY ACTUALLY HAVE MORE IN
COMMON WITH THE DOWNTOWN THAN THEY DO --
>> BUT THE PARKING IS DOWNTOWN. >> IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE
PARKING ISSUE, WE NEED TO REMEMBER THERE'S A LIGHT RAIL
STATION RIGHT HERE. >> OKAY.
FRANK, WE NEED TO HUSTLE THROUGH SOME OF THIS, BUT I WANT TO
GET -- I HAVE AN AGENDA QUESTION.
>> OKAY. I HAVE ONE THAT'S FAIRLY
COMPLICATED AND THE REST ARE VERY SIMPLE.
>> OKAY. THIS IS THE COMPLICATED ONE.
THIS IS A REQUEST BY ADVANTAGE INVESTMENTS FOR A PLAN AMENDMENT
TO STREET CLOSURE AND REZONING ON THE SITE OF THE FORMER ESTER
BROOK INN, THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY HERE.
THE ISSUE THAT COMES INTO PLAY IS THIS UNOPENED CITY RIGHT OF
WAY IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT IT TO. THE PROPERTY IS KURND ZONED C-1,
WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW A RESTAURANT AND THE PROPERTY USED
TO BE A RESTAURANT, THAT'S BEEN VACANT FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS,
SO THEY LOST THE NONCONFORMING USE.
THE PROBLEM THEY HAVE NOW IF THEY WANT TO FREIGHT AS A
RESTAURANT, IT WOULD REQUIRE A PLAN AMENDMENT TO GET A STREET
CLOSURE AND A REZONING JUST TO ALLOW IT, AND THE BIGGER PROBLEM
IS THE SIZE OF THE SITE. IT'S VERY SMALL.
CURRENTLY UNDER THE CURRENT GENERAL PLAN, THE PROPERTY IS
DESIGNATED AS INDUSTRIAL, THIS TRIANGLE, AND THE PROPOSED PLAN,
THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS LOOKED AT ALL OF THESE PARCELS
AND SEEING THEY'RE ALL DEVELOPED AS COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, THEY
SAID IT SHOULD BE DEVELOPED AS COMMERCIAL, SO WE WOULD SUPPORT
THE PORTION OF THE PLAN AMENDMENT DEALING WITH THE LAND
USE CHANGE. THE MORE CRITICAL ISSUE FROM A
PLAN AMENDMENT STANDPOINT IS THE TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PLAN
AND OUR CURRENT GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATES THIS LITTLE ROAD
SEGMENT, 34-FOOT-WIDE RIGHT OF WAY, AS AN ESSENTIAL
NEIGHBORHOOD -- OR ESSENTIAL ROAD IMPROVEMENT.
WHILE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS TO THE ROAD NETWORK THAT HAVE BEEN MADE
MAKE ME BELIEVE THIS IS NO LONGER NECESSARY, IT IS NOT
INCLUDED WORKING WITH PUBLIC WORKS.
WE WREE MOVED THIS PROPOSED -- REMOVED THIS PROPOSED SEGMENT
FROM THE 2030 PLAN BASED ON LACK OF NEED.
THEY SAID IT'S 34 FEET, IT'S ACTUALLY ONLY 38 FEET WIDE.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIT A STANDARD ROAD SEGMENT, IT
IS TOO NARROW. THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE IS THIS
UNOPENED RIGHT OF WAY IS YOUR ONLY ACCESS, WITHOUT GOING
THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, TO THIS LARGE INDUSTRIAL PARCEL.
AND THE GENERAL PLAN SAYS THAT WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ACTION THAT
WOULD CAUSE INDUSTRIAL TRAFFIC TO HAVE IMPACTSES ON A
RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND ALL OF THIS IS RESIDENTIAL.
SO IF YOU CLOSE THIS, THE ONLY WAY YOU WOULD GET ACCESS TO THIS
PARCEL WOULD BE THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
[ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ] >> THE SAME PEOPLE WHO OWN THIS.
>> C AND L MACHINE. THEY HAVE THE -- IF YOU GO BACK,
THEY HAVE THE PARCEL -- YEAH, RIGHT THERE.
THAT'S ACTUALLY OCCUPIED AND THEY'RE OPERATING ON.
[ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ] >> IT TAKES 70 -- THE ISSUE,
THOUGH, ANDY, IS TAKES AMBER STRAIGHT IN.
THERE'S NO OTHER ACCESS TO THAT PROPERTY OTHER THAN AMHERST
STREET. YOU CAN GO DOWN A SIDE STREET,
GO DOWN COUNTY AND HIT AMHERST, OR YOU CAN TAKE AMHERST STRAIGHT
OFF OF CHESAPEAKE BOULEVARD, BUT THAT ENTRANCE INTO THAT
COMMERCIAL AREA, THERE'S ONE WAY IN AND ONE WAY OUT, AND THAT'S
IT. IF THERE WAS EVER ANY
DEVELOPMENT ON THAT COMMERCIAL PIECE OF PROPERTY, THAT RED AREA
THERE, THAT WOULD BRING MORE COMMERCIAL TRAFFIC INTO THE
NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER PLACE FOR ENTRY OTHER THAN
POSSIBLY DEVELOPING THE PAPER STREET, WHICH -- YEAH, WHICH --
>> IS THERE A ROAD THERE THAT'S NOT BEING USED TO GET TO THE
INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY. >> THE PAPER STREET IS A PAPER
STREET. IT'S -- THAT'S WHAT I WENT TO
SEE. >> THAT'S HOW THEY WANT TO
CLOSE. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT CUTS
OFF THE ACCESS. >> WHAT YOU DO RIGHT NOW IS YOU
COME DOWN CHESAPEAKE AND THEN THE INDUSTRIAL TRAFFIC COMES
STRAIGHT DOWN AMHERST. NOW, IF THIS PROPERTY, IF THIS
IS CLOSED, THEN THE ONLY ACCESS THIS PROPERTY WOULD HAVE WOULD
BE TO COME DOWN AMHERST, DOWN COUNTY, AND THEY WILL BE
REQUIRED TO BUILD THIS PORTION OF THE RIGHT OF WAY.
>> IT WOULD REDIRECT THE COMMERCIAL TRAFFIC DOWN COUNTY
STREET, WHICH IS RESIDENTIAL, VERY QUIET AND NICE, RESIDENTIAL
ON BOTH SIDES. OR THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME
KIND OF PERMANENT EASEMENT ON THE PROPERTY.
IF THEY SOLD THAT RED PROPERTY AND IT WAS DEVELOPED, BECAUSE
THERE'S NO OTHER ACCESS TO IT RIGHT NOW, THERE WOULD HAVE TO
EITHER BE ACCESS MADE FROM COUNTY STREET OR THERE WOULD
HAVE TO BE A PERMANENT EASEMENT SO THAT THERE COULD BE INGRESS
AND EGRESS. >> RIGHT NOW, NOBODY IS GOING
OVER IS -- >> RIGHT NOW, NO ONE IS USING --
THIS IS ONLY 38 FEET WIDE AND IT WAS USED BY THE ESTER BROOK INN
FOR YEARS AS THEIR PARKING. >> IT IS NOT BEING USED AS
ACCESS TO INDUSTRIAL. >> NO, NO.
>> SO WHY DOES CLOSING IT MEAN --
>> BECAUSE THIS IS -- >> THEY'RE GOING INTO THE
NEIGHBORHOOD. I'M MISSING SOMETHING.
I HAVE TO GO LOOK AT IT. >> THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET
DIRECT ACCESS TO THAT UNDEVELOPED PARCEL.
>> IS IT WIDE ENOUGH FOR THAT? >> IT IS 38 FEET WIDE.
PUBLIC WORKS HAS TOLD US THEY TYPICALLY WOULD NOT BUILD A ROAD
FOR INDUSTRIAL TRAFFIC ON THAT NARROW RIGHT OF WAY, BUT RATHER
THAN HAVE THE TRAFFIC DIVERT THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY
WOULD BUILD IT. >> THEY'RE NOT USING IT NOW.
>> BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THERE.
>> THE PARCEL IS UNDEVELOPED RIGHT NOW.
>> I UNDERSTAND. WELL, HOW IS THE TRAFFIC GETTING
TO THE INDUSTRIAL PARK NOW? >> IT'S GOING DOWN AMHERST,
COMING OFF OF CHESAPEAKE BOULEVARD AND STRAIGHT DOWN
AMHERST NOW. IF THEY DEVELOP THE SECOND
PARCEL AND ADDED ADDITIONAL COMMERCIAL TRAFFIC, IT WOULD BE
ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC GOING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> I WARNED YOU THIS WAS THE COMPLICATED ONE.
>> I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
>> THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT ADVANTAGE INVESTMENTS HAS
PROPOSED TO USE FOR THE SITE, AND WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH IS
THAT PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. THEY HAVE ZERO PARKING WITHOUT
HAVING ACCESS TO THE CITY'S RIGHT OF WAY.
THE ESTHERBROOK INN WAS USING IT.
SO UNLESS THE STREET IS CLOSED, THEY CAN'T MEET OUR CURRENT
PARKING REQUIREMENTS OR OUR FUTURE PARKING REQUIREMENTS
BECAUSE ALL THEY WOULD HAVE IS TWO SPACES.
THEY HAVE DEVELOPED A CONCEPTUAL SITE PLAN WITH THE STREET
CLOSURE THAT WOULD SHOW HOW THIS COULD BE USED AND THEY HAVE
INDICATED, WITH THEIR PROPOSED ZONING, THAT THEY WOULD HIM THE
USES TO A -- LIMIT THE USES TO A RESTAURANT OR AN EATING AND
DRINKING ESTABLISHMENT AND THEY HAVE SAID AS PART OF PROPOSED
REZONING THAT THEY WOULD LIMIT THE HOURS OF OPERATION TO BARELY
LIMITED HOURS, 6:00 TO 9:00 DURING THE WEEK, AND 6:00 TO 0K
ON WEEKENDS. AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, THE
PROPONENTS INCLUDED THE APPLICANT, FOUR CITIZENS, AND
THE ESTHERBROOK CIVIC LEAGUE WHICH HAS ENDORSED DOING THIS.
IN OPPOSITION, WE HAD THREE CITIZENS AS WELL AS THE OWNERS
OF THE INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY, THE REPRESENTATIVES OF C AND L AND
THEIR ATTORNEY. THE PLAN AMENDMENT, THERE'S
COMPLETE CONSENSUS. THE PLAN AMENDMENT IS FINE.
WE SHOULD REMOVE THIS PAPER STREET FROM THE GENERAL PLAN, SO
WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT BASED ON A CHANGE OF CONDITION, BUT WE
ALSO RECOMMEND THE CHANGE IN LAND USE BASED ON CHANGE OF
CONDITION AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNNAN MUSSILY VOTED
FOR THAT AS WELL. >> WE REMOVING THE STREET --
>> JUST TAKE IT OFF THE ESSENTIAL STREET LIST BECAUSE IT
IS NO LONGER AN ESSENTIAL THING FOR RELIEVING CONGESTION, WHICH
IS WHY IT WAS PUT ON THERE. THE STREET CLOSURE ITSELF, WE
RECOMMENDED DENIAL BASED ON THE POLICY IN THE GENERAL PLAN THAT
SAYS WE SHOULD MINIMIZE THE IMPACT OF INDUSTRIAL TRAFFIC ON
RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS AND THIS WOULD DIVERT THE INDUSTRIAL
TRAFFIC THROUGH THE -- THROUGH MORE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE RECOMMENDED DENIAL. PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED
APPROVAL ON A 4-2 VOTE WITH A MAJORITY ACKNOWLEDGING THE
SUPPORT OF THE ESTHERBROOK CIVIC LEAGUE, THE MINORITY EXPRESSING
CONCERN ABOUT THE IMPACT ON THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE
FUTURE. >> AND THEY HAD REJECTED IT TWO
OTHER TIMES. >> WE, THEY CONTINUED IT
REPEATEDLY -- >> OKAY.
>> -- BECAUSE OF HOPING WE'LL BE ABLE TO RESOLVE THESE ISSUES,
AND THEN NEVER REACHED A RESOLUTION.
IF I HAD TO GUESS, I'M DOING THIS FROM MEMORY, I BELIEVE IT
WAS MR. WARLICK AND MS. CHANDLER HER IS THE OTHER ONE, THE TWO
REALTORS ON THE PLAN COMMISSION WERE THE TWO WHO OPPOSED IT.
>> SOUNDS FAMILIAR. >> WE RECOMMENDED DENIAL BECAUSE
UNLESS YOU CLOSE THE STREET, YOU CANNOT APPROVE THE REZONING.
PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL UNANIMOUSLY IF YOU
CLOSE THE STREET. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS, FRANK.
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY?
I MEAN, IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS AND YOU CLOSE THE STREET,
THERE IS A CAVEAT THAT SAYS THAT SHOULD THE INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY
BE SOLD, THEN IT COMES WITH A PLAN AND THEY NEED TO USE, OF
THIS, THE REOPENED -- AND IF I REMEMBER, CAN YOU GO BACK TO
THE -- THERE'S MEDIANS THERE THAT ARE GRASS, ARE THEY NOT?
THAT YOU CAN -- RIGHT THERE. ON CHESAPEAKE BOULEVARD, DOESN'T
IT HAVE MEDIANS THAT ARE GRASS? >> THAT'S RIGHT THERE AT
GEORGE'S SEAFOOD, THAT'S THE PLACE.
>> YOUR CHALLENGE IS, ZONING CAN'T DO SELF CORRECTING --
>> I'M JUST ASKING AND I UNDERSTAND.
LET ME FINISH MY THOUGHT. THAT WAY YOU MET -- YOU GOTTEN
THE BUSINESS ON THE BOOKS, IT'S RUNNING.
THAT INDUSTRIAL PIECE HAS BEEN THERE FOR, I DON'T KNOW HOW
LONG, AND -- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IT WAS EVER PUT IN AN
INDUSTRIAL USE. >> IT DOES NOT APPEAR THAT IT
HAS EVER BEEN DEVELOPED AS AN INDUSTRIAL USE.
>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT -- QUALIFIED TO WHAT YOU SAID
EARLIER, PAUL. I'M SAYING CONTINGENT UPON THE
PLAN WAS TO ARRIVE AND THE SALE OCCURRED OF THAT INDUSTRIAL
PIECE, CAN YOU THEN USE THE MEDIAN AREA IN FRONT OF THE
STORE, YOU KNOW HOW YOU CAN PULL IN, CARS PULL IN -- IT'S A LARGE
MEDIAN THERE, THAT CARS CAN PULL IN AND MAKING THE PARKING IN THE
MEDIAN AREA THAT ALLOWS CARS TO USE THAT AREA ACROSS FROM
GEORGE'S. GEORGE'S IS NUTS TO GIVE CRABS
OR FISH OR WHATEVER YOU WANT AND THEY USE THE MEDIAN AREA AS THEY
DO IN OUR URBAN AREAS, AND YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, BACK OUT ON THE
CHESAPEAKE AND YOU CAN GO. WHY CAN'T WE LOOK AT THAT AS A
FUTURE AMENITY TO FIX IT? >> THAT'S GOING TO BE PUBLIC
PARKING WHICH CANNOT BY ORDINANCE, CANNOT BE USED TO
MEET PARKING NEEDS OF AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER.
>> BUT WE'RE CLOSING A PUBLIC STREET, SO THERE HAS BEEN TO BE
A TIT FOR TAT. >> THEY WOULD BE SIEG THAT
INTEREST FROM US. >> IF YOU WERE TO REZONE THE
INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY, WOULD THAT BE THE WIN-WIN THAT YOU WOULD BE
LOOKING FOR? IT'S INDUSTRIAL AND IT'S NOT NOW
AND IT SHOULD BE ZONED SOMETHING ELSE.
>> REZONE IT TO WHAT? >> WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
>> IT'S A RAILROAD TRACK. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT REALLY
IS -- >> THAT NIGHT OFFEND THE OWNER.
>> AND I'M NOT SAYING TO OFFEND THE OWNER WHATSOEVER, BUT I'M
JUST TRYING TO FIND A COMPROMISE THAT ALLOWS THE RESTAURANT TO
OPEN, IT GETS TAX ROLLS -- BACK ON THE TAX ROLLS AND WE LOOK AT,
IF WE NEED TO, DOWN THE ROAD MAYBE 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WE LOOK
AT PARKING IN THE MEDIAN AREA THAT I KNOW IS USED IN OTHER
AREAS. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
>> I SEE PARKING IN THE MEDIAN AREA.
>> SURE, ALL THE TIME. >> THE CHALLENGE YOU HAVE WITH
THIS, QUITE FRANKLY, IS TO MAKE THIS WORK, YOU END UP HAVING TO
TAKE OUT THIS BUILDING TO OPEN THIS BACK UP TO TRUCK TRAFFIC
AND THAT IS A REAL CHALLENGE BECAUSE THIS IS RIGHT AT THE
EDGE OF THE ROAD WHICH RIGHT NOW IS SUB STANDARD.
PLANNING COMMISSION, AGAIN, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF ALL
THREE ITEMS. STAFF RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF
THE PLAN AMENDMENT, BUT DENIAL OF THE STREET CLOSURE AND THE
REZONING BECAUSE OF POTENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD IMPACT.
[ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ] >> THEY VOTED TO -- THEY
RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF ALL THREE ITEMS.
>> PLANNING STAFF? >> PLANNING STAFF DID NOT.
WE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE FIRST ONE AND DENIAL OF THE
SECOND TWO BECAUSE OF NEIGHBORHOOD IMPACTS.
IT'S NOT AN EASY ONE. I'LL SAY IN 25 YEARS OF DOING
THIS, THIS IS THE SINGLE-MOST COMPLICATED CASE I'VE HAD TO
DEAL WITH. >> THAT'S A VERY NICE AREA TO
RUIN WITH COMMERCIAL TRAFFIC. >> OKAY.
-- >> FRANK, LET ME JUST ASK REAL
QUICK, R-14, IF ANYBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION TO THE COLLEY
AVENUE APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION, FOR CHOW'S AT THE
END, IT SEEMS LIKE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY RECOMMENDED THE
HOUR TO 11:00 -- >> THAT'S THE MOST THE CITY
ORDINANCE WOULD ALLOW. >> OKAY.
>> THEY REQUESTED TO GO TO 2:00. >> CITY OORN SAYS BASED ON THEIR
PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL, THEY CANNOT.
>> BUT THAT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION?
>> NO, SPECIAL EXCEPTION DID HAVE THIS WAS AN ISSUE WE HAD,
FRANKLY, BECAUSE OF THIS ESTABLISHMENT, BECAUSE OF THE
NOISE COMPLAINTS COMING OUT OF TANNER'S CREEK, CITY COUNCIL
WANTED US TO LOOK FOR WAYS ON DEAL WITH THIS AND WHAT WE DID
WAS WE ADDED THE LIMITATION ON HOURS BASED ON PROXIMITY TO
RESIDENTIAL, AND THAT WOULD IMPACT THIS.
SO BY ORDINANCE, THEY ARE LIMITED TO -- LIMITED IN HOURS.
2:00 WOULD BE INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT CITY CODE WOULD ALLOW.
>> HOW DO WE GET AROUND IT? >> AMEND THE CODE.
>> I THINK THAT WAS THE REZONING THAT FRANK SAID --
>> ONLY LAWYERS CAN ASK THAT. [ LAUGHTER ]
>> THIS WAS A CONSEQUENCE OF SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE DID NOT
INTEND TO PREVENT THESE RESTAURANTS ON COLLEY AVENUE AND
SO THAT THE CHICKEN PLACE ON COLLEY AVENUE THAT WAS HERE LAST
WEEK WAS GETTING THE ZONING AMENDMENT SO THAT IT IS NOT
SUBJECT IT TO AND FRANK EXPLAINED THAT, BUT -- SUBJECT
TO IT AND FRANK EXPLAINED THAT, BUT THIS ONE IS AN AMENDMENT OF
A SPECIAL EXCEPTION THAT WAS GRANTED UNDER THE PREVIOUS --
>> THIS IS A NEW SPECIAL EXCEPTION BECAUSE WE HAVE A NEW
APPLICANT. >> I'M GLAD ADAM IS HERE.
ADAM, COULD WE RELY ON THE OLD SPECIAL EXCEPTION THAT HAD 2:00
HOURS SO THAT IT WAS GIVEN UNDER THE PREVIOUS ZONING AND IT HAS
NOT EXPIRED BY THE TWO-YEAR PERIOD?
IT'S A LIVE SPECIAL EXCEPTION THAT WE'RE AMENDING?
>> NEARLY ALL OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS HAVE AN AUTOMATIC
CUTOFF WITH A CHANGE IN OWNER. I BELIEVE THIS WAS A CORPORATE
OWNER AND I KNOW THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION WITH THE NEW OWNER
THAT THEY WERE JUST GOING TO TAKE OVER THE EXISTING
(INAUDIBLE) WHICH MAY MEAN THERE WAS TECHNICALLY NOT A CHANGE IN
THE OWNERSHIP. AND THAT MAY NOT HAVE TRIGGERED
THE TERMINATION, BUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE CHANGES IN THE
WAY THEY WERE OPERATING, THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO CARRY ON THE
OLD SPECIAL EXCEPTION, I DIDN'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
I LOOKED AT THE QUESTION OF OWNERSHIP AND EXPLAINED TO, I
THINK IT WAS -- HOW HE COULD USE THE EXISTING CORPORATE ENTITY TO
MAINTAIN THE OLD SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
BUT THAT'S THE EXTENT OF WHAT I KNOW ABOUT THE SIMILARITY
BETWEEN THE OLD OPERATING AND NEW OPERATING STRUCTURE.
OTHER CHANGES MAY BE (INAUDIBLE) OLD SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND WHEN
THE OPERATION CHANGES. I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE
DETAILS OF THE NEW OPERATION. >> ONE DETAIL IS HE'S NOT
KEEPING THE EXISTING MANAGER OR STAFF.
>> AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY LIVE MUSIC EITHER.
>> RIGHT. THEY HAVE LIVE MUSIC NOW.
THAT WAS THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM.
HE'S GETTING RID OF THAT. >> THEY'RE GETTING RID OF THAT.
I MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE LOUD MUSIC IN THE
RESTAURANT. >> THE SOURCE OF THE ISSUE THAT
THE NEIGHBOR WAS NOT JUST THE LOUD MUSIC.
IT WAS ALSO PEOPLE BEING BACK ON THE PADDO UNTIL 2:00 IN THE --
PATIO UNTIL 2:00 IN THE MORNING, SO IT WAS PRIMARILY MUSIC, BUT
IT WAS ALSO NOISE ABATEMENT. >> I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THEM
INSIDE. >> IS UNIVERSITY PIZZA, IS THAT
TILL 2:00? >> YES.
>> IT IS AND THAT'S RESIDENTIAL TOO AND THAT WAS A COMPLAINT OF
THE RESIDENTS ALSO. >> THAT WAS IN PLACE PRIOR TO
THIS ZONING AMENDMENT WHICH HAD THIS UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE.
>> SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT TONIGHT, I TAKE IT.
YOU NEED TO THINK FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS --
>> HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THEIR BUSINESS?
>> WHAT HOMEOWNERS THERE -- >> BELIEVE ME, WE'VE HAD
A MILLION CALLS FOR SERVICE, FOR POLICE, AND THIS WAS A VERY BIG
ISSUE IN HIGHLAND PARK NEIGHBORHOOD.
HIGHLAND PARK NEIGHBORHOOD WAS IN FAVOR OF THIS UNTIL 11:00,
BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET AHOLD OF THEM TO SEE HOW THEY
FEEL ABOUT CHANGING -- YOU KNOW, TO 2:00.
BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO DO THAT ANYWAY.
>> HIGHLAND PARK, WE TALKED TO THE HIGHLAND PARK NEIGHBORHOOD,
JUST REAL QUICK, PAUL. I MEAN, THAT'S MONARCH WAY,
RIGHT? THIS IS THE AREA THAT'S BEEN THE
BANE OF ALL THE RENTALS AND ALL THE CRIME IN THE ODU AREA.
WHO ARE THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE COMPLAINING?
>> THEY'RE NON-RENTERS THAT OWN HOMES THERE, THE SAME FOLKS THAT
FOUGHT US ON THE APARTMENT BUILDING THAT WAS PROPOSED AND
HAD A PETITION TO -- >> THERE'S A VERY STRONG
RESIDENTIAL CONTROL -- CIVIC FACILITY THERE, VERY POSITIVE --
>> THAT'S GOOD, BUT I HAVE -- >> I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY
STEPPED BACK AND LOOKED AT THIS, THE WAY THIS THING IS OPERATING.
THERE'S NO MUSIC, I WOULDN'T BLAME THEM FOR BEING MAD ABOUT
TANNERS CREEK, THAT THING GOT AWAY FROM EVERYBODY.
IT WAS A BUNCH OF FRIED FOOD AND BEER AND MUSIC IS WHAT IT IS,
BUT THIS GUY RUNS A -- >> NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
IS THERE A PROBLEM THERE? >> WELL, YOU KNOW --
>> THIS GUY RUNS A FIRST-CLASS RESTAURANT AND HE'S DONE THE AT
TWO SEPARATE LOCATIONS WHICH ARE GREAT AMENITIES TO THE
COMMUNITY. OTHERWISE THE BUILDING IS JUST
GOING TO SIT EMPTY. >> PAUL, WE DON'T NEED -- HE'S
GOT A TRACK RECORD. I THINK WE OUGHT TO LET HIM OPEN
WITH 11:00 IN THE WEEK AND 12:00 ON THE WEEKENDS.
>> HE SAID WE CAN'T DO THAT. >> HE WOULD BE ABLE TO STAY OPEN
AS -- WE OUGHT TO DO THAT AND TRY TO HAVE LEGAL AND PLANNING
WORK OUT A WAY IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE TO EXPAND THAT FROM 12:00
TO 2:00, RATHER THAN SAYING -- >> AND THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF
COLLEY AVENUE, THAT PORTION IS A PCO AND SO THAT IF THIS WAS
ADDED TO THAT PCO, THEN THE 2:00 WOULD APPLY TO THE --
>> MEANING THAT HE CAN'T SEAT OUTSIDE AFTER A SPECIFIC TIME,
AND THAT WOULD COMPROMISE. >> AFTER 12:00, HE WON'T HAVE
ANY LIVE MUSIC EVER OUTSIDE. >> AND HE CAN'T SEAT AFTER A
CERTAIN TIME OUTSIDE. >> SO IF WE GO AHEAD AND APPROVE
IT AND TRY LEGAL AND PLANNING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY -- HE'S
READY TO OPEN. HE HAS IT ALL STAFFED AND HE CAN
DO 12:00 -- >> I'M NOT SURE HE'S GOING TO
OPEN IF HE DOESN'T HAVE SOME ASSURANCE THAT HE'S GOING TO
STAY OPEN UNTIL THAT LATE BECAUSE HE SAYS THAT'S GOING TO
BE -- THAT'S GOING TO KILL HIM. >> I THINK HE'S HEARING COUNCIL
WANTS TO DO IT, BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE TIME TO DO IT
LEGALLY. I THINK I'M HEARING THAT.
IS THERE ANY OPPOSITION TO THAT? >> I WANT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN FOR
THEM. >> I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO IT
TONIGHT, BUT TO SAY LET'S POSTPONE IT FOR A MONTH AND COME
BACK, I THINK HE'S READY TO OPEN, HE HAS HIT WAIT STAFF AND
EVERYTHING THERE. >> CAN WE GIVE HIM SOMETHING
TEMPORARY UNTIL -- >> THIS IS THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED
UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING. >> WE TRY TO SOLVE THIS
BEFORE -- LET HIM GO AHEAD AND OPEN AND DO HIS THING --
>> I THINK WE COULD. I KNOW BETWEEN NOW AND AUGUST
WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TIME TO BRING TO YOU AN ORDINANCE ASKING
FOR THE PCO AND THEN IT WOULD BE GOVERNED BY THE PCO PROVISIONS
AND THEN HE BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THIS FOR LATER
HOURS. >> I THINK HE MADE IMPROVEMENTS
AND -- >> I STILL SAY I THINK RIGHT
HERE -- >> WELL, THEY'RE OKAY WITH WHAT
WE'RE DOING TONIGHT. >> CIVIC LEAGUE HAS VOTED TO
SUPPORT -- >> THE 11:00.
>> 11:00 THE WORK AND MIDNIGHT --
>> BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE'RE PUSHING AHEAD BECAUSE THIS
GENTLEMAN HAS SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO OPEN UNLESS HE CAN GET
1:00 BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE IT GO.
SO WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE ANY POINT IN PASSING IT WITH
THE PROMISE THAT WE'LL GIVE HIM 1:00 AS SOON AS BERN GETS IT
STRAIGHT IF THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOESN'T WANT IT.
YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? >> WELL, IT AFFECTS MORE THAN
THIS RESTAURANT. IT AFFECTS THAT NORTHERN PORTION
OF COLLEY AVENUE SO THAT WE JUST DID A BOUTIQUE REZONING FOR THE
CHICKEN WING PLACE, AND THAT IF YOU ADDED IT TO THE PCO, THEN
YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A HEARING ON A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, SO THE
COMMUNITY WOULD BE AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY FOR EACH OF THE
RESTAURANTS IF YOU DETERMINED TO GO FORWARD WITH THAT.
>> THE CHICKEN WING PLACE -- >> WE CAN'T CHANGE IT TONIGHT,
SO IF WE GIVE HIM A -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ]
>> HE DOESN'T HAVE TO OPEN, YOU CAN APPROVE IT --
>> HE CAN WAIT UNTIL HE GETS IT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A
CHOICE. I THINK WE OUGHT TO LET HIM AT
LEAST HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY. >> ALL RIGHT.
WELL, WE'RE DONE UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
>> WHAT WAS THE PLAN ON MOJO BONES?
>> MOJO BONES IS AGAIN ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL HOURS THEY ASKED
FOR PREVIOUSLY. >> THIS IS JUST REALLY THEY'RE
COMING BACK AND TRYING AGAIN. >> YES.
WE RECOMMENDED DENIAL AND PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED
DENIAL ON THIS. THERE ARE NEGATIVE VOTES ALSO ON
THE OTHER THREE ITEMS I WAS SCHEDULED TO DO A PRESENTATION
ON. THIS IS THE BONNIE BOONS
PAVILION WHERE THERE WAS SIGNIFICANT OPPOSITION BECAUSE
OF NOISE AND TRAFFIC. PLANNING COMMISSION DID
RECOMMEND APPROVAL AND STAFF RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF IT
BECAUSE IT DOES MEET ALL OF THE RESTRICTIONS.
>> PAUL, IF YOU HAVE -- >> HIS HOURS ARE NOT -- WHAT ARE
HIS HOURS? >> THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO STAY
OPEN, THEY'RE CONSISTENT -- WHAT MR. BOONE HAS ASKED FOR IS
CONSISTENT WITH WHAT CITY POLICY HAS BEEN IN THE OCEAN VIEW AREA.
HE ORIGINALLY ASKED FOR GREATER HOURS.
I TOLD HIM WE WOULD HAVE TO RECOMMEND DENIAL BASED ON CITY
COUNCIL POLICY, SO HE CHANGED HIS HOURS TO COMPLY WITH WHAT
THE CITY COUNCIL POLICY IS. >> WHO VOTED AGAINST?
>> YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME, GEORGE.
I DON'T REMEMBER. THERE'S MORE THAN ONE VOTE
AGAINST THIS ONE. [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ]
>> LET'S TAKE MORE TIME WITH THIS.
I THINK WE'RE RUNNING THROUGH THIS --
>> WE VOTE ON THIS IN TWO WEEKS. [ INAUDIBLE COMMENTS ]
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