Grandparents Raising Grandchildren

>> SO, WITH THAT, YOU'LL SEE THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS OUR KEYNOTE TODAY.
OUR KEYNOTE IS BY SOMEONE WHO I KNOW WHO'S VERY NEAR AND DEAR TO ME,
DR. HENRY HOLSTEGE.
DR. HENRY HOLSTEGE IS AN EMERITUS PROFESSOR FROM CALVIN COLLEGE,
WHERE HE TAUGHT BOTH GERONTOLOGY AND SOCIOLOGY.
DR. HOLSTEGE IS INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN AS A SPEAKER
AND AN AUTHOR ON A WIDE RANGE OF TOPICS RELATED TO AGING AND CAREGIVING...
AND HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE HEARD DR. HOLSTEGE BEFORE?
IF YOU HAVE, I DON'T NEED TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE.
HE'S A TREMENDOUS PRESENTER.
HE'S NOT ONLY INFORMATIVE, BUT HE'S ALSO ENTERTAINING AND ENERGETIC
AND HE HAS A GREAT MESSAGE.
I APPRECIATE HIM SO MUCH IN MY OWN LIFE,
AS ONE OF MY KEY MENTORS IN THIS FIELD,
AND SO, WITH NO FURTHER ADO, I'M GONNA ASK DR. HOLSTEGE TO COME UP
AND WE'LL PUT A MICROPHONE ON HIM.
HERE. >> I HAVE IT ON, MIKE.
(applause)
WELL, WITH AN INTRODUCTION LIKE THAT, I'M GOING HOME.
(audience laughing) I DON'T WANT TO PROCEED.
GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YOU.
MANY OF YOU ARE GRANDPARENTS.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT GRANDPARENTS.
I'M A GRANDPARENT-- 18 GRANDCHILDREN.
HOW YOU DOING?
I HAVE TO SAY THAT ONE OF THE FEARS MY WIFE AND I HAVE ALWAYS HAD...
WHEN OUR CHILDREN WOULD GO ON A RIDE OR ON A TRIP,
THAT THEY'D BE IN AN ACCIDENT AND THEY'D GET KILLED.
>> (indistinct speaking). >> YEAH, I KNOW YOU DO, BERNIE.
AND THEN, WHO WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE GRANDCHILDREN?
AND THE PROBLEM IS, AS YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE
WHICH ONES YOU WANNA TAKE CARE OF.
(audience laughing) NO-- OH, COME ON.
NOT ALL GRANDCHILDREN ARE LIKABLE, YOU KNOW--
NOT ALL CHILDREN ARE LIKABLE.
NOT ALL BABIES ARE BEAUTIFUL.
SOME ARE UGLY-- YOU DON'T SAY THAT.
(audience laughing) SAY, "THAT'S AN UGLY BABY."
BUT PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, THAT KID YOU DON'T LIKE THAT MUCH
IS SUDDENLY ONE YOU HAD TO TAKE CARE OF,
AND THE MAJOR PROBLEM WE ARE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH
IS DRUG ADDICTION, INCARCERATION.
IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE YOUR ADULT CHILDREN KILLED
AND YOU HAVE THEIR CHILDREN,
BUT WHENEVER YOU HAVE DRUG ADDICTION AND INCARCERATION,
THERE'S MULTIPLE PROBLEMS.
SO, BEAR THAT IN MIND.
I'D LIKE YOU TO TAKE THE WHITE PAPER THAT SAYS "BASIC CONSIDERATIONS"
IN REGARDS TO GRANDPARENTS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
NOW, PARDON ME FOR SPEAKING FAST.
I HAVE HALF AN HOUR AND I REALLY WANT A LOT OF DIALOGUE,
BUT WE HAVE FOUR PAPERS.
JUST INTERRUPT ME ANYTIME.
NUMBER ONE-- WHETHER ONE IS PSYCHODYNAMICALLY, BEHAVIORALLY,
PHENOMENOLOGICALLY, OR INTERACTIONOUS IN INTERPRETING HUMAN BEHAVIOR,
THERE ARE SYSTEMIC UNIVERSALS
IN REGARD TO BEING A CAREGIVING GRANDPARENT.
DON'T WANT TO GET TOO ACADEMIC ON YOU,
BUT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PROFESSIONALS.
WE COULD TAKE ANY ONE OF THOSE THEORETICAL ORIENTATIONS
ON COUNSELING AND SPEND A WEEK ON THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
ALL THAT I WANT TO SAY IS,
WHEREVER YOU COME IN ON A THEORETICAL ORIENTATION,
THERE ARE UNIVERSALS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
ONE IS-- AND NEVER FORGET IT, AND GIVE THE ADVICE--
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT--
WHAT LEGAL POWERS DO GRANDPARENTS HAVE TO HAVE THESE GRANDCHILDREN?
ARE THE CHILDREN ADOPTED?
ARE THEY IN LEGAL CUSTODY?
NOW, IF THEY ARE NOT, YOU KNOW THE ADULT CHILDREN CAN COME ANY TIME
AND TAKE THE CHILDREN OUT.
AND I'VE SEEN SO MUCH PAIN AND HURT ON THIS.
A CHILD WHO'S A DRUG ADDICT MAY DISAPPEAR FOR TWO YEARS,
COME BACK AND TAKE THE KID OUT, AND THE GRANDPARENTS ARE HYSTERICAL.
THEY SAY THEY MAYN'T DO THAT.
TELL IT TO THE JUDGE AND THE JUDGE IS GOING TO SAY,
"WHAT LEGAL CUSTODY DO YOU HAVE?
"YOU DON'T HAVE ANY."
AND THERE'S GOING TO BE TREMENDOUS PAIN.
ALWAYS CLARIFY, IF THERE'S A CAREGIVING GRANDPARENT,
WHAT ARE YOUR LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS?
IN ADDITION, THE TRUTH IS, AS WE GET OLDER, WE GET FATIGUED.
SOME GRANDPARENTS ARE RATHER YOUNG, SOME ARE OLDER.
WE'VE HAD GRANDPARENTS EVEN UP INTO THE 90s IN THE GRAND RAPIDS GROUP
WHO TOOK CARE OF A GREAT-GRANDCHILD...
AND I'D HAVE TO CONFESS, AT MY AGE,
I LIKE THE GRANDCHILDREN TO COME OVER...
FOR TWO HOURS. (audience laughing)
AND THEN, IF I THINK THEY'RE GONNA BE THERE 24 HOURS,
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO ALL THE VOLLEYBALL GAMES,
TRACK EVENTS, BASEBALL GAMES.
THEN, THE TEACHERS SAY YOU HAVE TO HELP THEM WITH THEIR SCHOOLWORK.
HOW MUCH ENERGY DOES ONE HAVE?
YOU HAVE TO BEAR THAT IN MIND.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, AS WE INCREASE IN AGE,
THERE'S GONNA BE AN INCREASED PROBABILITY OF CHRONIC ILLNESS--
DIABETES, CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE, RESPIRATORY DISEASE--
THAT ALL IMPACTS ON CHILD-REARING.
YOU KNOW THAT.
YOU GET TIRED, YOU GET FATIGUED, YOU GET IRRITABLE...
AND THE KIDS GIVE YOU A HASSLE, AND YOU GET ANGRY.
AND THE NEXT DAY, YOU'LL BE OLDER YET.
AND THEN, THERE'S ALWAYS THE PROBLEM...
OF THE INLAWS.
WHERE DO THEY COME IN?
I NEVER FORGET THE WOMAN WHO-- TREMENDOUS, I THINK, GRANDMOTHER--
HAD NO LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE THE GRANDCHILD.
ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THE INLAWS WERE CLOSE TO ABUSIVE,
IF NOT ABUSIVE.
WHAT RIGHT, THEN, DOES SHE HAVE?
WE'LL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE LATER.
IT GETS VERY COMPLICATED.
WHO HAS THE RIGHT, WHO HAS THE CONTROL,
HOW DO YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH ENERGY DO YOU HAVE?
SECONDLY, ON THAT PAPER,
WE ALSO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REALITY
OF THE BELL-SHAPED STATISTICAL CURVE.
NEVER FORGET THAT.
I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE AS A COUNSELOR OR A PARENT, GRANDPARENT--
YOU'RE NOT GONNA ALWAYS BE SUCCESSFUL.
YOU'RE GONNA FAIL AT TIMES.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM THAT YOU WERE THE KIND OF GRANDPARENT YOU SHOULD BE,
AND THE KID BECOMES AN ADDICT.
I'M GONNA GET INTO THAT A LITTLE LATER...
BUT I WANNA POINT OUT--
AND NEVER FORGET THAT BELL-SHAPED DISTRIBUTION CURVE.
ON THE END THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO REALLY MESS UP,
ON THE OTHER END ARE HEROIC EXAMPLES OF SUCCESS.
I'LL GIVE YOU AN ILLUSTRATION OF THAT, TO GIVE YOU SOME HOPE.
I WAS FAMILIAR WITH A COUPLE WHO WERE MARGINALLY BLUE-COLLAR--
MARGINALLY.
THEY WERE LIVING JUST ABOVE THE POVERTY LINE...
FRANKLY, NOT VERY BRIGHT.
THEY HAD ONE CHILD, WHO WASN'T AS BRIGHT AS THEY WERE.
HARDLY GOT THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL.
I COULDN'T SEE HOW HE COULD DO IT.
MARRIED A WOMAN WHO DROPPED OUT, WHO WASN'T EVEN MARGINAL.
THEY HAD ONE CHILD-- SO, THERE'S ONE GRANDCHILD, RIGHT?
REALLY, MULTIPLE DYSFUNCTIONAL HOME...
EXCEPT FOR ONE THING.
THAT GRANDCHILD WAS BRILLIANT WITH MATHEMATICS, ONLY WHO KNOWS WHY?
IF YOU'D SAY TO HIM, "HOW MUCH IS 240 TIMES 230?
"OH, YOU'RE DOING-- YOU GOT IT?"
"55,200." "RIGHT."
HE WENT INTO HIGH SCHOOL AND WAS AN AMAZING MATH STUDENT...
AND HE WAS AN AFFABLE KID.
HE WASN'T ATHLETIC, BUT THE ATHLETES LIKED HIM.
HE HELPED THEM IN THEIR SCHOOLWORK.
AND I'M CONVINCED THE SCHOOL SAVED HIS LIFE.
THE PHYSICS INSTRUCTOR ALLOWED HIM IN THE LAB ALL THE TIME TO HELP.
HIS S.A.T. SCORES WERE...
HE WENT ON TO THE AIR FORCE ACADEMY.
WHEN I HEARD THAT, I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
HOW CAN THAT POSSIBLY BE?
NOW, HE GRADUATED, AND AS FAR AS I KNOW--
AND I MAKE NO JUDGMENTS HERE-- HE'S HARDLY EVER BEEN HOME.
WITHOUT GOING INTO IT, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.
I'LL NEVER FIND OUT-- I'M TOO OLD-- IF THE GUY EVER BECOMES A GENERAL
AND ANYBODY WRITES HIS LIFE STORY, THERE'S A LIFE STORY THERE TO BE WRITTEN.
NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, I CAN SAY TO YOU,
"SEE, IF YOU REALLY TRY, WHAT WILL HAPPEN?
"YOUR GRANDKID WILL END UP IN ONE OF THE ACADEMIES."
AND THAT'S A LIE.
YOU COULD BE THE BEST PARENT ANYBODY COULD EVER BE,
AND YOUR KID ENDS UP BEING A DRUG ADDICT,
AND THEY'RE OFF ON THE STREET, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF GUILT,
AND MUCH OF THAT MIGHT BE UNREALISTIC GUILT.
NEVER FORGET THIS--
WHAT DEGREE OF SUCCESS CAN YOU LIVE WITH?
NOW, LIFE ISN'T FAIR.
SOME PEOPLE SEEMINGLY LIVE WITH SUCCESS AND SHOULDN'T HAVE IT,
AND OTHERS SHOULD HAVE IT AND DON'T IT.
THAT'S LIFE.
THREE-- IT IS NOT ADVISABLE TO GIVE MEDICATIONS
JUST BECAUSE OF BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS,
AND CONVERSELY, IT IS NOT ADVISABLE TO WITHHOLD MEDICATIONS
JUST BECAUSE OF IDEOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS.
GRANDPARENTS WILL BE MULTIPLE PILL USERS, I'LL GUARANTEE IT.
HELP.
ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS HERE.
ONLY GOD KNOWS AT WHAT POINT THAT HYPERACTIVE KID
SHOULD REALLY GET RITALIN.
SHOULD YOU NEVER USE IT?
WHERE ARE YOU COMING FROM?
OF COURSE IT SHOULD BE USED.
SHOULD YOU USE IT FOR ANY NAUGHTY KID?
OF COURSE NOT.
HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT JUDGMENT?
COME ON, EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM KNOWS
THAT BIPOLAR KID NEEDS MEDS.
DON'T KID YOURSELF.
YOU MAY BE A COGNITIVE THERAPIST AND I'LL SUPPORT YOU UP TO A POINT,
BUT IF YOU WANT TO BE A COGNITIVE THERAPIST
FOR SOMEONE SEVERELY BIPOLAR...
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU READ.
THAT KID NEEDS MEDS, AND THERE'S HOPE FOR HIM IF, THEN,
HE TAKES HIS MEDS AS PRESCRIBED.
THEN, THE PROBLEM IS ALMOST SURELY...
THE GRANDPARENTS ARE GOING TO BE TAKING MEDICATION,
AND IF THEY HAVE PAIN, THERE'S GONNA BE OXYCOTTON,
AND AT THAT POINT, THE KID KNOWS HE CAN SELL IT OUT ON THE STREET--
IT BECOMES A REAL PROBLEM.
WATCH THE USE OR MISUSE OF PILLS.
ONE REALLY NEEDS WISDOM HERE, AND IT'S TOUGH.
CLARIFY WHAT SUPPORT-- NUMBER FOUR-- IS AVAILABLE IN THE COMMUNITY
AND THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, THE COURTS, THE CHURCHES.
WE'LL GET INTO THAT LATER.
WHAT FINANCIAL SUPPORT IS AVAILABLE FOR GRANDPARENTS
TAKING CARE OF GRANDCHILDREN?
THEY SHOULD HAVE FINANCIAL SUPPORT.
I'M GETTING OLDER AND MELLOW-- I DON'T GET ANGRY THAT MUCH ANYMORE.
THAT'S LIFE, BUT... PEOPLE NEED HELP.
WE CAN TAKE MONEY...
AND GIVE IT TO BUSINESS-- A BILLION DOLLARS--
AND IN THIS STATE, WE DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR THE CORRECTION SYSTEM
THAT COULD HELP A KID OR YOU, AS A GRANDPARENT,
THAT NEEDS FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE.
BUT THERE ARE AGENCIES THAT CAN GIVE HELP, IF YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE,
AND YOU HAVE TO TELL THE GRANDPARENTS, "HAVE A LIST...
"OF A HUGE LIST IN KENT COUNTY," BUT IT DOESN'T HELP YOU OUTSIDE OF KENT COUNTY.
OKAY, FIVE--
HAVE YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE RISE. (audience laughing)
YEAH, I SEE THE TROUBLE COMING-- RIGHT, RIGHT.
BUT I'M GONNA USE, "I'M AN OLD GUY, SO WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO?
"SHOOT ME?"
SAY, "HEY, I WAS GONNA DIE NEXT WEEK ANYWAY, SO..."
ONE FREQUENTLY WILL BE DEALING WITH THE FRINGE OF THE SCHOOL POPULATION--
THAT'S A TRUE ASSERTION.
"THE REJECTS," IN QUOTATION MARKS--
I DON'T WANT THEM REJECTED.
THAT'S THE WAY THE KIDS SEE THEM.
THE DRUGGIES... THEY'RE OUT THERE.
THERE'S NOT A SCHOOL SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY
THAT DOESN'T HAVE DRUGGIES.
(coughing)
THE ANGRY.
YEAH, YOUR MOTHER'S A DRUG ADDICT, YOUR DAD'S AN ALCOHOLIC,
THEY BEAT YOU HALF TO DEATH.
YOU'RE LIVING WITH GRANDPARENTS YOU DO, AT TIMES, GET ALONG WITH,
AND AT OTHER TIMES, YOU DON'T-- YOU'RE ANGRY.
WHY SHOULDN'T THE KID BE ANGRY?
THE KID HAS A RIGHT TO BE ANGRY.
HE MEETS OTHER KIDS WHO ARE ANGRY,
AND THEN, THANK GOD, HE MEETS A GOOD COUNSELOR IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM
WHO LETS HIM GO THROUGH A CATHARSIS.
THAT'S GOOD, IF WE CAN GET TO 'EM.
I KNOW A LOT OF THOSE KIDS WHO WON'T SEE A COUNSELOR FOR ANYTHING.
YOU'D HAVE TO ALMOST BEAT THEM WITH A BASEBALL BAT.
THE UNSTABLE.
NOW, WE CAN SAY THAT NORMAL DISTRIBUTION CURVE
IN THIS ROOM IN ANY SCHOOL,
WE'RE GONNA HAVE A DISTRIBUTION OF VERY STABLE PEOPLE.
THAT'S NOT A CHARACTER THING.
IT'S A BIOCHEMICAL THING, A GENETIC THING.
SOME OF YOU HAVE ANXIETY ATTACKS.
IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BAD PERSON OR A GOOD PERSON...
ALMOST SURELY IT'S IN YOUR GENES.
SOME OF YOU HAVE ANXIETY ATTACKS
BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT TO HAVE ANXIETY ABOUT.
DON'T FORGET, THAT KID THERE IN THAT CLASS IS TESTED CONSTANTLY.
HE GETS TESTS ON ALL OF HIS SUBJECTS.
TRIES OUT FOR SPORTS-- HE'S TESTED.
TRIES OUT FOR BAND.
WHAT CHAIR ARE YOU, RALPH? >> (indistinct speaking).
>> THERE ARE TEN TROMBONISTS.
TEN?
FIRST CHAIR.
SIGNALS ARE BEING SENT ALL THE TIME.
AND THE DEPRESSED.
YOU CAN SIMPLY FLOAT THROUGH THE POPULATION--
THERE'S A FAIRLY STEADY STATE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE DEPRESSED,
AND THAT KID NEEDS A LOT OF HELP,
AND IF NOT, HE'S GONNA BE IN A LOT OF TROUBLE
BECAUSE HE'S GONNA USE DRUGS TO GET HIM OUT OF THE DEPRESSION.
WHY DO YOU THINK SOME PEOPLE SMOKE MARIJUANA?
BECAUSE IT GIVES YOU A BUZZ ON-- YOU FEEL GOOD.
SOME OF YOU WERE ADDICTS.
YOU KNOW IT'S TOUGH TO BREAK.
WHY DO PEOPLE SMOKE CIGARETTES?
EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS ANYBODY WHO SMOKES CIGARETTES--
YOU THINK, "HOW CAN THEY DO THAT?"
BECAUSE THEY'RE ADDICTS, THAT'S WHY.
THEY KNOW THE DATA.
THAT KID WHO'S 16 WHO'S SMOKING--
HE'S GOT OTHER PROBLEMS AND HE NEEDS A LOT OF HELP.
SUBJECT-- SIX-- SUBJECTIVITY AND OBJECTIVITY
ARE NOT ALWAYS COORDINATED.
WHO'S REALITY IS TO PREVAIL?
NOW, FOR EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM, I'D ALMOST BEG YOU, "BE CAREFUL HERE."
I SEE IT ALL THE TIME AND I SAW IT IN COLLEGE.
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR KID TO BE A DOCTOR?
HOW ABOUT AN ATTORNEY?
HOW ABOUT AN ENGINEER?
HOW ABOUT A TRUCK DRIVER?
DO YOU KNOW, FOR SOME KIDS, THAT'S A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT.
CAN WE REALLY ACT THAT WAY AND LIVE THAT WAY?
AND THE GRANDMOTHER SAYS TO ME, "I WANT MY DAUGHTER TO BE A DOCTOR."
AND YOU FIND OUT SHE'S A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL
AND HARDLY HAS EVER TAKEN ANY MATH, HAS NO PHYSICS, NO CHEMISTRY.
I CAN GUARANTEE YOU ONE THING--
WHEN I GET HER IN COLLEGE, I LOOK AT HER RECORD
AND I SAY, "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE?"
AND SHE SAYS, "I'M PRE-MED." (audience chuckling)
I TRY TO BE KIND... SHE'LL BE BACK IN A MONTH--
SHE'S NO LONGER PRE-MED.
IF YOU'RE GONNA BE PRE-MED,
YOU TAKE EVERY TOUGH SCIENCE COURSE IN HIGH SCHOOL YOU POSSIBLY CAN,
AND IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING "A"S, THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE.
DON'T BLAME ME.
YOU WANNA BE AN ATTORNEY?
THE LAW SCHOOL EXAM IS GONNA WEED YOU OUT
UNLESS YOU ACHIEVE AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS.
AND WHAT I MEAN BY "SUBJECTIVITY" AND "OBJECTIVITY" IS FOR EVERY COUNSELOR,
FOR EVERY EDUCATOR, FOR EVERY GRANDPARENT,
CAN YOU MAKE AN ADEQUATE ASSESSMENT
OF WHERE YOUR CHILD OR GRANDCHILD IS AT?
THAT'S WHY I SAID, TO BE A TRUCK DRIVER IS A WORTHY GOAL,
AND WE NEED A LOT OF TRUCK DRIVERS TODAY...
AND IT PAYS WELL.
A GOOD MECHANIC IN A LARGE CITY FOR AUTOMOTIVES
MAKES ABOUT 100,000 A YEAR.
I AM CONVINCED THAT WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO ARGUE THIS.
WE NEED TO HAVE THE OLD VOCATIONAL EMPHASIS BROUGHT BACK TO SCHOOL,
LABELED AT A HIGHER LEVEL, AND GIVE THESE KIDS A CHANCE TO MAKE IT.
IN EUROPE, IF YOU DON'T GO TO COLLEGE, YOU GO TO A CERTIFICATION PROGRAM.
AND WHEN YOU GET THAT CERTIFICATION,
YOU GO INTO A GOOD-PAYING JOB.
WE DON'T DO THAT.
WE TRY TO PUSH KIDS INTO COLLEGE, THEY CAN'T MAKE IT, THEY GET DEPRESSED,
THEY TURN TO MARIJUANA, THEY'RE OUT ON THE STREET,
AND NOW WE HAVE TO TRY TO GRAB THEM,
WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY FOR THE COURTS TO TREAT THEM ADEQUATELY.
WHY COLLEGE, WHY GRADUATION, WHY WHAT?
NOT EVERYBODY SHOULD GO TO COLLEGE,
AND I DON'T SAY THAT AS AN ELITIST WHO TEACHES IN A COLLEGE.
I SAY THAT AS A GRANDPARENT OF SOME GRANDCHILDREN
WHO SHOULDN'T GO TO COLLEGE.
BUT I WANT THEM SKILLED.
IS ONE DEALING WITH A STUDENT PROBLEM OR A FAMILIAL, GENERATIONAL PROBLEM?
FREQUENTLY, IT'S A GENERATIONAL PROBLEM.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A TOUGH TIME HELPING THAT KID WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING THE...
FAMILY HE COMES FROM AND THE PROBLEMS HE FACES AT HOME--
WE'LL GET INTO THAT LATER.
HOW DOES ONE MEASURE SUCCESS?
SO, PAGE TWO...
WE DEAL WITH GRANDPARENTS WITH A MULTIPLICITY OF PROBLEMS.
IF YOU CAN FIND PAGE TWO.
UH, EVERYBODY HAVE THAT?
WE TRY TO CONNECT THEM-- THE GRANDPARENTS--
WITH THE APPROPRIATE AGENCIES THAT CAN GIVE THEM ASSISTANCE FREQUENTLY.
THE BEST ASSISTANCE CAN BE DESCRIBED BY PERSONS FROM THE APPROPRIATE AGENCY.
HENCE, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS,
WE HAVE HAD SPEAKERS SUCH AS... JUDGES.
THE JUDGES WE'VE HAD HAVE DONE A BEAUTIFUL JOB,
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS
THEY INDICATE WHAT THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR ADOPTION, FOR LEGAL CUSTODY,
BUT THEN, VERY IMPORTANTLY-- NEVER FORGET FOR YOUR GRANDPARENTS--
I'VE SEEN THEM CRY, I'VE SEEN THEM ALMOST BREAK DOWN.
WHEN YOU GO TO COURT, IT'S NOT YOUR ATTITUDE.
WHEN YOU GO TO COURT, IT'S "WHAT ARE THE FACTS?
"HAVE YOU DATED THAT INSTANCE?
"DO YOU HAVE A WITNESS FOR THAT INSTANCE?"
IN FACT, YOU SAYING SOMETHING IS NOT GONNA IMPRESS A JUDGE
UNLESS YOU CAN BACK IT UP WITH EVIDENCE...
AND I'M AMAZED HOW MANY PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT,
SAYING, "I TOLD THE JUDGE 'THOSE INLAWS ARE NOTHING BUT A PROBLEM!
"'THEY DON'T CARE FOR THE KID ADEQUATELY.'"
AND THE INLAWS SAY, TO YOUR SURPRISE, "WE LOVE THE CHILD.
"WE GIVE HER LOVING CARE."
AND THE JUDGE SAYS, "DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE?"
STRESSED TO THE GRANDPARENTS--
WRITE DOWN, KEEP A DIARY, DATE THE INSTANCE.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT YOUR WORD.
YOU NEED EVIDENCE.
POLICE OFFICERS.
I WANNA TELL YOU ALL-- I WANT TO ADMIT OPENLY...
I DON'T THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TAKE CARE OF GRANDCHILDREN
OVER ANY PERIOD OF TIME BECAUSE, AS A POLICE OFFICER POINTS OUT--
AND THEY SCARED ME TO DEATH--
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S ON THAT INTERNET?
WHEN HE TOLD ME, I THOUGHT, "I WON'T ALLOW A COMPUTER IN MY HOUSE."
I WOULD, OF COURSE-- THEY NEED IT TO DO THEIR RESEARCH.
FACEBOOK-- DO THE KIDS REALLY KNOW
THAT CAN FOLLOW THEM FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE?
YOU KNOW THAT-- THEY'RE IMMATURE, THEY'RE BRAINS AREN'T MATURE.
LATER, THEY'RE GONNA APPLY FOR A JOB,
AND THEY BRING UP THE FACEBOOK, AND THEY SAY, "WELL, NICE TALKING TO YOU.
"WE MAY CALL YOU LATER."
THERE ARE VILLAINS OUT THERE TRYING TO MAKE A CONNECTION.
I'M AMAZED HOW OFTEN WE SEE IT ON TELEVISION.
SOME 59 YEAR OLD GUY HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH A 13 YEAR OLD GIRL,
AND YOU THINK, "WHERE WERE HER PARENTS?"
THAT'S UNFAIR.
AND THEN, I THINK, "WHAT IF I'M TAKING-- WHERE ARE THE GRANDPARENTS?"
AND THEN, THERE'S PORNOGRAPHY.
IT SHOCKS ME-- WHAT DOES IT DO TO A 12 YEAR OLD KID?
"HO HO HO, YOU OUGHTA SEE THIS."
"WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?" "NOTHING-- WHY?"
IT'S A TOUGH WORLD OUT THERE AND THE POLICE OFFICER SAYS,
"UNDERSTAND-- BE AWARE OF THE DANGER."
AND THE POLICE OFFICER CAN TALK ABOUT GANGS,
HE CAN INDICATE WHERE THEY ARE, WHO THEY ARE, WHAT THEY'RE CALLED,
WHAT THE SIGNATURES ARE ON THE BUILDINGS...
AND THE POLICE OFFICER WILL TELL YOU WHO THEY CAN PICK UP WHEN AND WHY,
WHAT DOES A CURFEW MEAN.
GRANDPARENTS SHOULD KNOW THAT.
SOCIAL SECURITY REPRESENTATIVES.
YOU MAY SAY, "HOLSTEGE, WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT DOWN?"
THE REASON WE HAVE IT DOWN IS THERE ARE SURVIVAL BENEFITS
IF THE MOTHER OR FATHER ARE DECEASED.
I'VE MET GRANDPARENTS WHO DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS.
THEY GET SOCIAL SECURITY, SURVIVAL BENEFITS,
UNTIL THEY'RE 18 OR 19 IF THEY ARE IN COLLEGE.
AND THEN, THERE ARE S.S. PAYMENTS AND DISABILITY PAYMENTS.
SOCIAL SECURITY REPRESENTATIVES CAN POINT IT OUT.
SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS.
I THINK GRANDPARENTS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE POLICY OF THE SCHOOLS ARE.
THEY WENT TO SCHOOL 30, 40, 20 YEARS AGO.
THE POLICIES HAVE CHANGED...
AND THEY'RE UPSET.
I'VE TALKED TO GRANDPARENTS FILLED WITH RAGE.
SO HAVE YOU, VERNITA...
WHO THINK THERE IS INADEQUATE DISCIPLINE IN THE SCHOOLS.
IN FACT, SHE TOLD ME THAT, TOO, AMONG OTHER PEOPLE.
BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR A KID WHO'S 17, IN CONTRAST TO US?
WHEN WE WENT TO SCHOOL, YOU WALKED THE HALLWAYS IN SILENCE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. >> IF NOT, A HAND WOULD GRAB YOU SAYING,
"HOLSTEGE, COME TO MY OFFICE."
"OH, LORD BE WITH ME... HERE WE GO AGAIN!"
TODAY, YOU THINK, "ISN'T ANYBODY IN CONTROL?"
AND THEN, YOU HEAR WHAT THEY SAY IN THE CLASSROOMS,
AND THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR SHOULD TRY TO EXPLAIN
WHAT'S HAPPENING SO YOU UNDERSTAND.
NUMEROUS SOCIAL WORKERS REPRESENTING, SIMPLY, MANY DIFFERENT AGENCIES--
CHILD WELFARE, PROTECTIVE AGENCIES.
AND PEOPLE HAVE TO-- WE'RE GONNA RUN OUT OF TIME.
I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE INSTANCE.
A MEMBER OF MY CHURCH HAS RENTAL PROPERTY.
KEPT IT UP REALLY WELL, BUT A FAMILY TOOK OVER--
ONE GRANDMOTHER, FIVE CHILDREN.
GOD BE WITH HER.
TOTALLY RUINED IT.
FILLED WITH MICE AND COCKROACHES.
HE CLEANED IT UP.
HE, SO FAR, HAS MURDERED 62 MICE.
FOUR HUNDRED COCKROACHES BUT HAS 1,200,000 TO GO YET,
BUT HOPES TO GET IT DONE.
HE WENT TO PROTECTIVE SERVICES AND SAID, "YOU OUGHTA SEE THIS HOUSE."
WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY SAID?
"I'M NOT GONNA GO INTO THAT."
WELL, THERE ISN'T REALLY A LAW, YOU KNOW,
HOW MANY COCKROACHES ARE PERMISSIBLE?
A MILLION OR 400,000?
THEN, HE FOUND OUT LATER
THE BEDROOMS FOR THE KIDS HAD OUTSIDE LOCKS ON THEM.
YEAH, NOW WE GOT A PROBLEM.
I THINK-- BUT HE HAD TO CONVINCE THEM.
BUT CALL PROTECTIVE SERVICES AND HAVE THEM EXPLAIN WHY
OR WHY THEY DO NOT TAKE ACTION.
WE HAVE SUCCESSFUL ADULTS WHO'VE RAISED SUCCESSFUL GRANDCHILDREN,
WHICH IS AN INSPIRATION FOR MANY GRANDPARENTS.
WE HAD A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER COACH COME,
REALLY EXCITED ABOUT HIS GRANDPARENTS.
WE HAD GRANDPARENTS WHO'VE RAISED SUCCESSFUL GRANDCHILDREN.
REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE STATE
DISCUSSING FOOD STAMPS, MEDICAID, CHILD SUPPORT.
YOU OUGHTA BRING SOME OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES IN AND TELL THEM,
"WE AREN'T GETTING ENOUGH SUPPORT FOR THE WORK THAT WE DO,
"TRYING TO RAISE GRANDCHILDREN.
"WE NEED MORE MONEY, WE NEED MORE SERVICES."
NOW, HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT-- I JUST-- ON THE BOTTOM-- IGNORE IT--
WE FOUND THAT, FOR GRANDPARENTS, ATTENDANCE DEPENDED A LOT ON THE WEATHER,
SOMETIMES EVEN ON CHURCHES,
IF THEY ALL GO TO ONE OR TWO CHURCHES OF A DENOMINATION.
THEY HAVE A CONFERENCE SOMEWHERE, THEY DON'T COME.
COULD YOU TURN TO THE PAGE--
"GRANDPARENTS AS PRIMARY CAREGIVERS OF GRANDCHILDREN"?
YOU SEE THAT?
DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES, MIKE ALREADY MENTIONED THAT.
ABOUT SEVEN PERCENT OF GRANDCHILDREN RIGHT NOW
ARE LIVING WITH THEIR GRANDPARENTS.
THAT IS INCREASING.
THAT WILL CERTAINLY INCREASE IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS TO TEN PERCENT.
SO, EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT,
EVERY SOCIAL WORKER HAS TO BE AWARE THAT'S GONNA INCREASE.
THE REASONS FOR THE CHANGE ARE LISTED.
THE MAJOR CHANGE IS DRUG ADDICTION.
A KID GETS TO BE A DRUG ADDICT...
UH, METHAMPHETAMINES...
CRANK, COCAINE, HEROIN.
THEY'RE GONNA WALK AWAY.
AND WHO TAKES CARE OF THE CHILD?
IT'S GONNA BE THE GRANDPARENT.
EMOTIONAL INSTABILITY OF THE ADULT CHILD.
THE CHILD IS SCHIZOPHRENIC, THE CHILD IS A MAJOR BIPOLAR,
THEY'RE NOT TAKING THEIR DRUGS.
JAILING.
THE CHILD WAS TAUGHT-- PRODUCING METHAMPHETAMINES,
THE GRANDCHILD, THEREFORE, HAS NO HOME.
THE PARENT IS IN JAIL.
THE GRANDPARENT TAKES OVER.
UNEMPLOYMENT, DEATH OF THEIR ADULT CHILD, BAD DECISIONS, BUT YOU KNOW THAT.
THE REASONS CITED FOR THE ABOVE DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGE
HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT
ON THE INTERACTION BETWEEN GRANDPARENTS AND GRANDCHILDREN,
AND THEREBY AN IMPACT ON THE INTERACTION
OF THE GRANDCHILDREN AND THEIR BEHAVIOR, THEIR PEER GROUP,
AND SCHOOL ACHIEVEMENT.
AS I SAID BEFORE, IT'S ONE THING
IF THE PARENTS ARE IN JAIL FOR DRUG USAGE.
THAT MEANS THAT THE GRANDPARENTS ARE GONNA HAVE SOME OF THE--
IF YOU SKIP DOWN A LITTLE BIT-- FOLLOWING REASONS.
SKIP JUDITH HARRIS FOR JUST A MINUTE.
IMPACT ON GRANDPARENTS.
WE OVER-ROMANTICIZE RAISING CHILDREN AND RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
BE NEITHER A CASSANDRA NOR A POLLYANNA.
DON'T BE UNDULY DEPRESSED, DON'T BE UNDULY OPTIMISTIC.
I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THE RESEARCH IS CONSISTENT.
GIVEN SOME OF THE PROBLEMS I MENTIONED ABOVE,
MANY GRANDPARENTS ARE GONNA HAVE GUILT--
REALISTIC AND UNREALISTIC.
IF YOUR CHILD IS A DRUG ADDICT, EVERYBODY THINKS, "WHAT DID I DO WRONG?
"WHAT COULD I HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY?"
IF YOUR CHILD IS IN JAIL, YOU THINK, "I MISSED SOMETHING."
AND IT MIGHT BE TRUE.
THERE IS A REASON FOR GUILT.
BUT THE BEHAVIOR OF A CHILD BY ITSELF
OUGHT NOT, THEREBY, PRODUCE GUILT.
ABOVE THAT-- THE BOOK-- JUDITH HARRIS, "THE NURTURE ASSUMPTION,"
AND HER RESEARCH.
SHE RECEIVED A PRIZE FROM THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION
AS THE BEST PSYCHOLOGICAL BOOK OF THE YEAR, SOME YEARS AGO.
AND SHE ARGUES VERY STRONGLY, OVERWHELMINGLY,
AMERICAN PARENTS THINK THEY ARE THE SOLE DETERMINANT
OF THEIR CHILD'S BEHAVIOR OR GRANDCHILD'S BEHAVIOR,
AND IT ISN'T TRUE FOR TWO REASONS.
BY THE AGE OF 12, THE PEER GROUP STARTS TAKING OVER.
THEIR VALUES ARE VERY POWERFUL, AND THAT KID WANTS TO BE ACCEPTED,
AND HIS SELF-IMAGE IS DEPENDENT ON THE PEER GROUP.
AND HERE WE GET INTO AN ARGUMENT-- WE DON'T HAVE TIME.
THE OTHER REASON IS THE GENETIC HERITAGE THE CHILD HAS.
LOOK, WE'RE BORN WITH A PROPENSITY TOWARD DEPRESSION,
ANXIETY, BIPOLAR, AND, I THINK, ADDICTION.
"IT ISN'T YOUR FAULT, ALICE.
"YOU DID THE BEST YOU COULD DO."
BUT GIVEN GENETICS, THERE'S A HIGH PROBABILITY OF RISK HERE.
ANXIETY.
YOU KNOW, THAT GRANDPARENT IS GONNA HAVE A LOT OF ANXIETY.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT WHEN MY CHILDREN ARE ON VACATION,
I TAKE CARE OF THE GRANDCHILDREN-- I HAVE A LOT OF ANXIETY.
"WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS?"
I'D HAVE TO CONFESS PROPORTIONATELY TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY.
I HAVE THAT WHEN I HAVE ONE OF THEIR DOGS.
"WHAT IF THE DOG'S KILLED WHILE THEY'RE GONE?
"WELL, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THE DOG."
NOW, IT'S A LITTLE CHILD AND YOU LOOK AROUND...
AND YOUR HEART SINKS.
"WHERE IS HE?"
I EVEN HAD THAT AT MEIJER GARDEN.
I TOOK THREE LITTLE GRANDCHILDREN DOWN THERE AND ONE WAS MISSING.
"OH, MY GOODNESS, SOME VILLAIN, SOME FIEND... TOOK HIM."
I FOUND HIM, HAPPY AS CAN BE, WHISTLING DOWN THE LINE...
AT WHICH POINT, I WANTED TO PICK HIM UP BY HIS EARS AND SHAKE HIM.
(audience laughing)
BUT THEN, HE WOULD BE A MASS KILLER-- I COULDN'T DO THAT.
YOU KNOW THAT AND I KNOW THAT.
FINANCIAL STRUGGLES-- ALMOST ALL GRANDPARENTS
ARE GONNA HAVE FINANCIAL STRUGGLES.
WE ALL DO, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOUR GRANDCHILD GO TO COLLEGE.
WELL, I WISH YOU WELL.
HAVE YOU CHECKED SINCE YOU'VE BEEN THERE WHAT THE TUITION FOR COLLEGE IS?
WHO'S GONNA PAY THAT?
HOW IS THE GRANDCHILD GONNA PAY THAT?
NOW, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE GUILT BECAUSE YOU WON'T GIVE ENOUGH MONEY
FOR THE CHILD TO GO TO COLLEGE.
"THAT'S YOUR FAULT-- YOU SHOULD HAVE EARNED MORE.
"YOU RETIRED TOO EARLY-- THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.
"YOU DIDN'T CARE, DID YOU?" (audience chuckling)
NO, FILL YOU ALL WITH GUILT BEFORE YOU GET OUT OF HERE.
(audience laughing) DEPRESSION... HEY.
IT'S AS COMMON AS THE COLD.
WE GIVE (indistinct), WE GET DEPRESSED, AND NOW YOU'RE STRUGGLING,
YOU'RE TIRED, YOU'RE FATIGUED.
YOUR GRANDCHILD GOT IN TROUBLE,
AND THE PRINCIPAL, THE COUNSELOR CALLED YOU TO COME TO SCHOOL.
AND THE ANGER-- ALL OF THIS PRODUCES SOME ANGER,
AND, TO THAT EXTENT, OFTEN PHYSICAL DETERIORATION.
ANGER, DEPRESSION, ANXIETY LEADS TO PHYSICAL DETERIORATION.
UM...
I WANT TO SKIP "I TALK LEGAL AMBIGUITY." (laughing)
I JUST WANNA MENTION A FEW THINGS ON THE FOLLOWING PAGE.
UH...
CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE FULLY DEVELOPED BRAINS
UNTIL THEY ARE IN THEIR 20s-- YOU SEE THAT?
WELL, DON'T FORGET THAT.
THERE ARE MANY KIDS--
WE EVEN HAVE A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE NOW
WHO SAID HE DID SOMETHING AT 18 HE NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE,
BECAUSE NOW HE HAS A MATURE BRAIN.
TRUE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT'S WHAT HE CLAIMS AND THAT MAY BE TRUE.
NOW, CHILDREN NEED FIVE TIMES AS MUCH LOVE--
DEMONSTRATED BY WORD, TOUCH, AND DEED-- AS CRITICISMS.
I THINK THE RESEARCH ON THAT IS CLEAR.
YOU HAVE TO DISCIPLINE A KID,
BUT DO YOU PUT YOUR ARM AROUND THE KID AND SAY TO THE KID, "I LOVE YOU.
"I CARE ABOUT YOU."
DO YOU REALLY PRAISE THE KID BECAUSE HE GOT GOOD GRADES?
THEY MADE THE ATHLETIC TEAMS?
THAT'S WHAT KIDS NEED.
A FAMILY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, YOU KNOW THAT, I KNOW THAT.
THAT CREATES A LOT OF STRESS.
I DIDN'T INTEND TO VOTE ON YOUR CURFEW.
"IT'S 12 O'CLOCK."
"DAD, LET'S VOTE... WE'RE ALL AROUND THE TABLE."
"NO, I'M IN CHARGE, WITH YOUR MOTHER.
"I TALKED TO HER-- 12 O'CLOCK." "DAD--"
"DON'T TALK ABOUT IT-- WE JUST DID-- 12 O'CLOCK."
THEY THINK IT'S A DEMOCRACY.
CHILDREN HAVE TREMENDOUS MOOD SWINGS, DON'T FORGET THAT.
IT ALWAYS STRUCK ME-- IN 6th GRADE, OUR DAUGHTER WOULD COME HOME,
NOBODY LIKED HER.
TERRIBLE THINGS.
"OH, HERE WE GO."
THE NEXT DAY, I'D SAY, "HOW ARE THINGS GOING?"
"FINE, WHY?" (audience laughing)
"'FINE, WHY?'
"WHY DID YOU JUST COMPLAIN?"
"OH, THAT WAS YESTERDAY-- THAT WAS NO PROBLEM AT ALL."
THEY WERE IN THE DEPTHS OF DESPAIR.
WHAT IS AGE-APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR?
GOD BE WITH YOU.
I DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE WHAT IT IS FOR A 17 YEAR OLD.
THERE ALWAYS WILL BE STRESS.
ALL GRANDPARENTS HAVE A PROBLEM
OVER WHAT IS CONSIDERED "ADEQUATE DISCIPLINE."
BURNOUT WILL BE A PROBLEM.
WELL, WE'RE OUT OF TIME.
I WANTED DISCUSSION AND CRITICISM, AND I'M NOT GONNA JUST--
MY TIME IS UP, BUT IF YOU HAVE CRITICISMS OR QUESTIONS,
WE'RE GONNA LEAVE SOME TIME.
(general chatter)
>> OKAY, HOW WAS LUNCH, EVERYONE? (scattered response)
(applause) I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU...
THAT WAS FILLING, WASN'T IT?
SO, I CAN JUST SEE PEOPLE DOZING OFF NOW FOR THE NEXT SECTION,
SO WE'LL TRY TO KEEP IT LIVELY.
WHAT I'M GONNA ASK-- WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO
IS WE'RE GONNA DO A PANEL FOR THE NEXT HOUR.
NOW, WE HAVE SO MANY GRANDPARENTS AND PROFESSIONALS HERE
WHO REPRESENT SUPPORT GROUPS,
I'M NOT GONNA PUT YOU ALL AT THE FRONT AT ONE TIME.
WHAT I THINK MAKES A LOT OF SENSE--
WE JUST SAW A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF A SUPPORT GROUP MEETING.
THE SUPPORT GROUP.
AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS MEANT TO BE,
AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN A SUPPORT GROUP.
NOW, MANY SUPPORT GROUPS HAVE AN ADDED DIMENSION
OF SOME KIND OF EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM AS A PIECE OF IT.
AND I'M SURE THAT MOST OF YOUR GROUPS REPRESENT THAT, AS WELL.
WHAT I THINK I'LL DO IS START WITH THE GRANDPARENTS.
THE GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE HERE WHO WERE ASKED TO BE ON THE PANEL,
IF YOU COULD COME UP AND TAKE A SEAT HERE.
WE'LL START WITH THE GRANDPARENTS, AND THEN YOU CAN KINDA TELL YOUR STORY,
AND THEN WE'LL SAVE TIME FOR THE PROFESSIONALS
WHO WERE ASKED TO BE ON THE PANEL NEXT, OKAY?
SO, IF THE GRANDPARENTS WOULD JUST TAKE A SEAT--
TAKE SEATS IN THE MIDDLE, SO PEOPLE CAN SEE YOU.
(distant laughing)
>> HEY, MIKE, HOW ABOUT IF WE WEAR BOTH HATS?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT MANY OF THE FACILITATORS
ARE ALSO GRANDPARENTS,
BUT I'LL HAVE YOU BE ON THE FACILITATOR PANEL, OKAY?
'CAUSE THAT WAY,
WE'LL HAVE ENOUGH CHAIRS UP HERE. (chuckling)
OTHERWISE, EVERYONE WILL BE ON THIS SIDE OF THE ROOM,
LOOKING AT EMPTY TABLES.
SO, WHAT I'M THINKING IS,
I SENT OUT, TO SEVERAL PEOPLE, SOME SAMPLE QUESTIONS.
BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE GRANDPARENTS,
IF YOU DIDN'T SEE IT, I'LL JUST GIVE YOU A PIECE OF PAPER TO LOOK AT.
I'M GOING TO NEED THIS FOR THE PROFESSIONALS, TOO.
THE GRANDPARENT QUESTIONS ARE DOWN BELOW.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS.
WE WON'T HAVE TIME, PROBABLY, FOR THAT.
BUT IF YOU COULD JUST ADDRESS SOME OF THESE ISSUE TO THE GROUP--
(distant laughing) WHAT I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO DO
IS INTRODUCE YOURSELF, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF
AND YOUR GRANDPARENTING SITUATION,
AND THEN, I PUT SEVERAL QUESTIONS DOWN
ABOUT YOUR PARTICIPATION IN AN EDUCATIONAL SUPPORT GROUP
AND HOW IT BENEFITS YOU,
AND IF YOU COULD ANSWER A FEW OF THOSE QUESTIONS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
I'M LOOKING AT TRYING TO SAVE ABOUT 20 MINUTES
FOR THIS PORTION OF THE PROGRAM,
AND THEN WE'LL TRANSITION TO THE PROFESSIONALS.
OKAY, SO THAT'S ABOUT FIVE MINUTES EACH.
SO, WHO WANTS TO START? >> (indistinct speaking).
(all laughing) >> TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF THEM.
>> (indistinct speaking).
>> SO, WE'RE GONNA LET RICH GO FIRST.
AND RICH, IF YOU'D START BY INTRODUCING YOURSELF
AND A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR SITUATION. >> WELL, I'M RICH FITCH.
I LIVE IN REED CITY, MICHIGAN, ABOUT 75 MILES FROM HERE.
UM...
I RETIRED FROM TEACHING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL 12 YEARS AGO.
I JUDGE HORSE SHOWS...
AND I'M NOW VOLUNTEERING AT OUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
IN THE SPECIAL ED ROOM A COUPLE MORNINGS A WEEK
TO JUST SEE HOW THINGS GO THERE.
BOTH OF MY CHILDREN THAT I'M RAISING ARE IN SPECIAL ED PART OF THE DAY...
AND REGULAR ED THE REST OF THE DAY.
THE SPECIAL ED PROGRAMS HAS BEEN A GODSEND TO BOTH OF THEM,
BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH STRUGGLING.
THEY HAD LOTS OF STUFF THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO LEARN THAT--
"WELL, HOW CAN YOU TEACH ABOUT THAT
"WHEN THEY CAN'T EVEN READ FIVE WORDS ON THE WHOLE PAGE?"
SO, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF SUCCESS WITH BOTH OF THE KIDS IN THE SPECIAL ED PROGRAM.
AND SO, I VOLUNTEER THERE AND I'M ALSO VOLUNTEERING
AS THE CHILD VOLUNTEER PROTECTION ADVOCATE
FOR THE A.Y.S.O. SOCCER PROGRAM.
SO, UM...
I'M NOT GETTING VERY MUCH MONEY FOR ANY OF THESE VOLUNTEER JOBS--
(all laughing) AT LEAST THE HORSE SHOW JUDGING
IS BRINGING IN SOME FUNDS.
UM, WE ADOPTED SEVERAL KIDS BACK WHEN MY WIFE AND I FIRST GOT MARRIED.
SHE HAD A SON, I HAD A SON, THEN WE HAD A DAUGHTER,
AND THEN WE ADOPTED THREE MORE.
THE FIRST ONE WE ADOPTED WAS A PIECE OF CAKE.
SHE FIT RIGHT INTO THE FAMILY.
SHE CAME IN PERFECT.
THEN, WE DECIDED MAYBE WE OUGHTA TRY THIS AGAIN.
THE CASE WORKER SAID, "WELL, I HAVE A FAMILY THAT NEEDS TO BE ADOPTED."
WELL, BY THE TIME WE GOT TO THE FAMILY, ONLY TWO OF THEM WERE LEFT.
THE THIRD ONE-- THE MIDDLE CHILD-- WAS ADOPTED OUT
BECAUSE SHE WAS THE PRETTIEST, I THINK.
AND SO, WE GOT CARRIE AND ZACH.
CARRIE WAS SEVEN, ZACH WAS TWO, WHEN WE GOT THEM.
WELL, CARRIE, FIRST TIME WE MET HER, SHE SHOPLIFTED.
WE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE AN UPHILL BATTLE,
AND IT HAS BEEN.
SHE'S NOW IN MISSAUKEE COUNTY JAIL THIS WEEK.
LAST WEEK, SHE WAS IN, UM...
NO, SHE'S IN ROSCOMMON THIS WEEK.
LAST WEEK, SHE WAS IN MISSAUKEE COUNTY JAIL,
AND HAS BEEN THERE FOR SEVERAL WEEKS, MONTHS.
SHE'S SUPPOSED TO GET OUT IN AUGUST.
SHE-- WE HAVE HER TWO OLDER ONES THAT WE TOOK
WHEN THEY WERE STILL WITH HER.
HE-- UH, RYAN-- WAS A MONTH-- A YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS.
AALIYAH WAS FIVE MONTHS, AND WE WENT TO THEIR APARTMENT
AND SAID, "WE'RE TAKING THESE CHILDREN TO OUR HOUSE,"
BECAUSE CARRIE WAS SLEEPING ON THE COUCH, TOTALLY DRUNK.
WE COULDN'T EVEN WAKE HER UP.
SO, WE JUST TOOK THEM
AND THEN LEFT A NOTE FOR HER THAT WE'VE TAKEN THEM.
SINCE THEN, WE HAVE LEGAL CUSTODY OF BOTH.
WE'RE THINKING OF ADOPTING,
BUT THE ONE LAWYER WE WENT TO MENTIONED IT WOULD BE $4,000 RETAINER FEE,
AND WE JUST SAID, "THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE."
UM, IF WE DO ADOPT, WE'RE GOING TO ONLY ADOPT AALIYAH...
BECAUSE RYAN IS GETTING S.S.I. DISABILITY,
AND FROM WHAT WE'VE UNDERSTOOD, IF WE ADOPT HIM, WE LOSE THAT MONEY.
AND SO, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THE DOLLARS,
AND THAT'S A SHAME BECAUSE BOTH KIDS ARE JUST FANTASTIC LITTLE PEOPLE.
BUT LIKE THE VIDEO SAID, I GET TIRED.
(laughing)
AND MY WIFE HAS SOME HEALTH PROBLEMS, SO SHE DEFINITELY GETS TIRED.
SHE'S TIRED WHEN SHE GETS UP IN THE MORNING.
SO, IT'S BEEN KIND OF A STRUGGLE, BUT THEY'LL BE WITH US FOREVER.
AND THE GIRL WHO'S IN JAIL, SHE HAS TWO OTHER CHILDREN.
THEY ARE IN FOSTER CARE BECAUSE WE JUST COULDN'T TAKE ANY MORE.
SO, WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GOES FOR THEM.
WAS I SUPPOSED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS NOW, OR JUST...
>> (indistinct speaking).
>> OH, FANTASTIC.
FIRST TIME WE WENT, WE THOUGHT WE WERE THE ONLY PEOPLE STRUGGLING IN THIS WORLD.
AND WE GOT THERE,
AND THERE WAS ONE GREAT-GRANDMOTHER RAISING HER GRANDSON.
THERE WAS, UM...
ANOTHER COUPLE WHO HAD TWO GRANDSONS FROM TWO DIFFERENT SIBLINGS
THAT THEY WERE RAISING.
IT'S JUST BEEN A TOTAL PEACEFUL SITUATION,
AND WHEN WE SAY TO THE KIDS, "HEY, WE'VE GOT GRANDPARENTS THIS WEEK,"
GREAT, BECAUSE THEY GET TO GO WITH US.
WE HAVE PIZZA AND THEN THEY GO AND WATCH A MOVIE
OR PLAY A GAME WITH THE OTHER KIDS...
AND WE GO AND DO OUR TALKING.
AND IT'S JUST A BIG BENEFIT TO ALL THE FAMILY TO BE THERE,
KNOWING THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HOT MEAL AND, UM...
A LOT OF GOOD TALK AND GOOD LEARNING EXPERIENCES.
THANKS.
>> MY NAME IS JUDY CONWAY, AND I'M FROM LUDINGTON MASON COUNTRY,
AND, UM...
I'VE HAD MY GRANDSONS-- MY TWO LITTLE GRANDSONS--
THEY'RE 12 AND 14 NOW.
THEY'RE NOT SO LITTLE.
BUT I'VE HAD 'EM ON AND OFF SINCE BIRTH.
MY DAUGHTER IS A PROSTITUTE AND A DRUGGIE.
MY OLDEST GRANDSON, CHRISTOPHER,
WAS ADDICTED WHEN HE WAS BORN,
SO HE WENT THROUGH WITHDRAWS,
AND HAD SEIZURES AND THREW UP AND HAD DIARRHEA,
AND HIS MOTHER SAID, "I DON'T WANT THIS KID,"
AND THE STATE SAID, "SHE CAN'T HAVE THIS KID,"
SO WE-- I ENDED UP-- WE WERE GOING TO ADOPT HIM,
BUT MY HUSBAND DIED... UM, IN THE PROCESS,
AND THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAID, "NO,"
I CAN'T GO THROUGH WITH ADOPTION, BUT I COULD HAVE LEGAL CUSTODY.
SO, THAT'S WHAT I DID.
AND THEN, SHE TOOK OFF AND WAS GONE FOR A WHILE,
AND CAME BACK, AND SHE'S PREGNANT AGAIN...
AND JUSTICE KYLE CAME.
BUT JUSTICE WAS BLESSED-- HIS MOTHER DID NOT DO DRUGS.
I THINK SHE DRANK, BUT WE'RE NOT SURE HOW MUCH, BUT NOT MUCH.
SO, HE'S NOT AFFECTED AS BAD AS HIS BROTHER...
BUT HE DOES HAVE SOME TRAUMA ISSUES
THAT WE JUST NOW ARE REALIZING
'CAUSE THEY'RE COMING UP.
AND JAN AND I AND A COUPLE OTHER LADIES
WENT TO THE (indistinct) CONVENTION,
AND WE HEARD DR. HENRY TALK, AND I'M LIKE, "OH, YEAH!
"I UNDERSTAND NOW," BECAUSE HE TALKS ABOUT TRAUMA
AND HE TALKS ABOUT THOSE KIDS AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE KIDS WHEN THEY'RE LITTLE,
AND I NEVER EVEN-- IT DIDN'T DAWN ON ME.
I-- YOU KNOW, JUSTICE KYLE IS JUST O.D.D., HE DOESN'T WANT TO LISTEN,
HE DOESN'T WANT TO DO THESE THINGS.
IT'S NOT THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO-- HE CAN'T.
YOU KNOW, AND SO, WE'RE DEALING WITH THAT IN THE GRANDPARENTS GROUP.
WHEN I GOT MY GRANDSONS--
UH, THE LAST TIME I GOT THEM, I HAD COME TO MICHIGAN--
MY SISTER LIVES IN LUDINGTON, I WAS LIVING IN HOUSTON, TEXAS.
SHE HAD TO HAVE A BONE MARROW TRANSPLANT FOR CANCER, AND I WAS A MATCH.
SO, I CAME UP HERE AND... (laughing)
MADE A LIFE FOR MYSELF, ALL BY MYSELF,
YOU KNOW, WITH MY SISTER, AND WE WERE ENJOYING LIFE.
I MET A MAN ONLINE AND HE CAME TO MICHIGAN AND LOVED IT,
AND WE GOT TOGETHER AND WE WERE GOING TO GET MARRIED,
AND I GOT A PHONE CALL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT...
AGAIN.
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN HOUSTON, TEXAS,
HAD ARRESTED MY DAUGHTER FOR, UH...
HAVING SEX WITH A MINOR,
HAVING WEAPONS IN THE HOUSE AND DRUG PARAPHERNALIA.
SO AGAIN, SHE GOES TO JAIL.
THIS TIME, SHE'S LOOKING AT PRISON TIME.
AND THEY SAID, "WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO WITH THESE TWO BOYS?"
AND YOU SAID, "YOU KEEP THEM AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
"MY OLDEST DAUGHTER WILL BE THERE WITHIN THE HOUR,
"AND THEY WILL BE IN MICHIGAN WITHIN FIVE HOURS,"
AND THEY WERE.
THEY CAME ON THE AIRPLANE ALL BY THEMSELVES.
I, UM...
A FRIEND OF MINE HAD INTRODUCED ME TO LOIS CARR,
WHO WAS A PART OF THE GRANDPARENTS GROUP.
AND AT THAT TIME, MISS JUNE McMANN WAS OUR MENTOR,
AND SHE CAME TO THE HOUSE,
AND SHE HELPED ME IN EVERY WAY YOU CAN IMAGINE.
THEY CAME WITH ONE PAIR-- ER, TWO PAIR OF JEANS,
TWO SHIRTS, A SWEATSHIRT, AND A VIDEO GAME...
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY CAME WITH-- AND WE HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, SO...
THE GRANDPARENTS GROUP HELPED US...
GET LEGAL CUSTODY THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM.
HELPED US THROUGH THE MIRE OF PAPERWORK THAT WE HAD TO GO THROUGH.
UM, GET INTO C.M.H.,
WHICH IS COMMUNITY MENTAL HEALTH, FOR THE BOYS.
THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND ALL OF THE GREAT FUN THAT WE'VE HAD,
AND MY POOR HUSBAND AT THE TIME-- (chuckling)
WE WERE NEWLY MARRIED, AND HIS MOTHER CAME WITH HIM,
BECAUSE SHE IS NOT ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF HERSELF,
SO WE NOT ONLY HAD GRANDCHILDREN, BUT WE HAD A GRANDMOTHER--
A GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, TOO.
SO, WE HAD A LOT OF FUN, BUT...
WITHOUT THE GRANDPARENTS GROUP, I DON'T THINK I COULD HAVE KEPT MY SANITY.
(all laughing) BECAUSE I COULD GO THERE
AND LAUGH ABOUT THE STUFF THAT WAS GOING ON,
WHICH IS NOT FUNNY-- MOST OF YOU KNOW.
YOU KNOW, MOST OF IT IS HORRIFIC,
AND TO THINK THAT THESE TWO LITTLE BOYS HAVE LIVED THROUGH ALL OF THAT.
YOU KNOW, AND THEN PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE AFFECTED BY THAT.
THEY WANT THEM TO BE "NORMAL," THEY WANT THEM TO FIT IN.
THEY DON'T FIT IN.
YOU KNOW, MY GRANDSONS DON'T FIT IN.
UM, MY OLDEST GRANDSON...
IS THREE AND A HALF YEARS BEHIND, DEVELOPMENTALLY.
HOW DO YOU FIT THAT IN TO BEING SELF-SUPPORTING
BY THE TIME HE'S 18?
NEVER.
IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
SO, THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT WE DEAL WITH
AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT IS GOING ON...
AND IF WE COULD HAVE MORE SUPPORT THROUGH OUR LEGISLATION--
WE HELPED WITH A BILL THAT GOT PASSED,
AND WENT INTO APPROPRIATIONS AND DISAPPEARED.
SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE ARE WORKING ON TODAY.
SO, HOPEFULLY, IF WE COULD GET ENOUGH GRANDPARENTS TOGETHER--
WE DON'T COUNT AS A SINGLE GROUP,
BUT IF THOSE GROUPS COULD FORM A LARGER GROUP,
WE COULD HAVE A MIGHTY, MIGHTY TOOL TO WORK WITH THE LEGISLATION.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON.
>> THANK YOU.
AGAIN, MY NAME IS VERNITA PERRY...
AND, UH, I AM A--
I AM A GRANDMOTHER AND A GREAT-GRANDMOTHER.
WHEN I, UH...
FIRST STARTED WITH THE GRANDPARENT SUPPORT GROUP,
I ACTUALLY DID IT TO HELP A FRIEND RECRUIT PEOPLE.
I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE-- I'M USUALLY PRETTY GOOD ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE TOGETHER
AND GETTING THEM TO WORK.
AND WE DID.
AT THAT TIME, IT WAS A FRIEND OF OURS, UH...
COMMISSIONER LUMPKINS, BEFORE HE BECAME COMMISSIONER,
BEFORE MR. GROCE CAME IN WITH DOC.
WE GOT 'EM TOGETHER, GOT THESE PEOPLE THERE,
AND WE WERE JUST KIND OF HELPING 'EM GET IT STARTED,
AND IT WAS THREE LADIES FROM MY CHURCH--
GLORIA JONES AND EVELYN WHITFIELD. (chuckling)
LITTLE DID WE KNOW THAT THREE OF US, INDIVIDUALLY,
HOW MUCH WE WOULD PERSONALLY NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE GRANDPARENT--
I'D SIT THERE AND LISTEN TO THEM AND LISTEN TO DOC.
"OH, THESE LADIES REALLY HAVE PROBLEMS."
AND WE HAD A FEW MEN AT THAT TIME, TOO.
AND, UM, THINGS START CHANGING IN OUR LIVES.
I BECAME, UH-- SUDDENLY BECAME A GRANDPARENT.
WASN'T EXPECTING THAT,
AND MY DAUGHTER WAS A SOPHOMORE AT AQUINAS
AND HAD A FULL RIDE-- YOU KNOW, ALL THE GOOD STUFF.
EVERYTHING WAS GOING WELL.
SAME THING HAPPENED WITH THE OTHER TWO FRIENDS.
ANYWAY, IT BECAME REALITY TO US,
SO WE WERE PAYING MORE AND MORE ATTENTION
TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH PARENTS,
BECAUSE WE REALLY NEEDED EACH OTHER.
AND LONG BEFORE-- AND I JUST LOVE HILLARY, I'M READING HER BOOK--
BEFORE SHE COINED THE PHRASE THAT "IT TOOK A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD,"
AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES-- THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE COULD DO IT.
WE HAD TO SURVIVE.
PEGGY AND I WAS JUST SAYING, UM...
OUR KIDS GET SO ATTRACTED TO PEOPLE THAT WE DON'T KNOW.
AND NOT TO SOUND SNOBBISH OR ANYTHING,
BUT THERE ARE SOME FAMILIES I DIDN'T WANT MY CHILDREN
OR GRANDCHILDREN TO BE BOTHERED WITH...
AND I STILL DON'T.
BUT, UM, BECAUSE WE DID HAVE VALUES-- WE WEREN'T PERFECT.
BUT, UH, WE KNEW POVERTY.
MY GRANDPARENTS AND GREAT-GRANDPARENTS MIGRATED HERE FROM THE SOUTH--
JUST AS WITH MR. GROCE AND EVERYTHING.
BUT WE SAW PEOPLE THAT WORKED.
THEY WORKED HARD.
THEY WERE UNEDUCATED BUT THEY LEARNED SKILLS, AS DOC WAS SAYING.
EVERYBODY'S NOT COLLEGE MATERIAL.
SO, OUR VALUES-- YOU TOOK CARE OF FAMILY, SO WHATEVER HAPPENED,
YOU KNOW YOU JUST HAVE TO GET TOGETHER AND TAKE CARE OF 'EM.
AND WE DID.
AND WE STARTED HAVING PROBLEMS, ALL OF US INDIVIDUALLY,
WITH OUR CHILDREN AND THEIR FRIENDS.
AND ONE OF THE SIGNS OF TROUBLE IS WHEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN,
THEY'RE FRIENDS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW.
YOU ASK, "AND WHO'S YOUR FAMILY?
"WHAT CHURCH DO YOU ATTEND?"
AND THEY START LOOKING AT YOU REAL CRAZY, YOU KNOW?
AND I SAID, "TROUBLE."
MY EXPERIENCE, HAVING RETIRED FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS--
MY PASSION WAS A GREAT LOVE FOR CHILDREN,
AND I GUESS THAT'S WHY I FOSTERED FOR SO MANY YEARS.
BUT HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THE GROUP OF MEN AND WOMEN...
AND TRULY I MISS SOME OF THEM, AND LISTENING TO SOME OF YOUR STORIES,
I START SAYING, "I GOTTA GET ON THE PHONE AND CALL A FRIEND OF MINE
"OUT IN JENISON AND FIND OUT HOW SHE'S GOING--
"DOING WITH HER CUSTODY."
BUT WE BECAME-- WE BECAME A FAMILY.
WE SHARED-- WE TALKED NOT ONLY ON THE SECOND TUESDAY
WHEN WE MET AS THE SUPPORT GROUP,
BUT WE TALKED WITH EACH OTHER, WE SHARED MANY THINGS,
AND LITTLE DID DOC AND DANIEL
AND, NOW, MRS. GROCE THAT WORKS WITH US--
LITTLE DID YOU KNOW HOW IMPORTANT
THE LITTLE GIFTS YOU GAVE TO MANY OF THE...
GRANDPARENTS.
BECAUSE I WAS FORTUNATE.
I HAD A GOOD-- I HAD A GOOD RETIREMENT WITH THE STATE.
I WAS TELLING DOC, MY GRANDSON'S TAKING ALL OF THAT AND I NEED A JOB.
BUT, UM...
SOMETIMES, JUST GETTING THE LITTLE GIFTS--
THE DISH DETERGENT, THE LITTLE PERSONAL ITEMS.
AND AT CHRISTMAS, MIKE SOMEHOW ALWAYS FINDS SOMEONE WITH A HEART
TO JUST ENCOURAGE GRANDPARENTS, BECAUSE MANY TIMES WE SACRIFICE A LOT.
AND MANY OF THE PARENTS ARE REALLY UNDER THE POVERTY LEVEL,
AND IT IS HARD.
SO, THE LITTLE THINGS THAT YOU DO IS REALLY IMPORTANT,
AND WE APPRECIATE IT.
NOW, IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FACT
THAT SOME OF US, BETWEEN THE MEETINGS,
TALKED WITH EACH OTHER AND FOUND OUT THE AVENUES TO GET HELP,
WE PROBABLY-- YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SEEN SOME OF US ON THE 6 O'CLOCK NEWS
AND IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN VERY NICE, YOU KNOW?
(laughing) BUT WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT,
AND THAT'S SO IMPORTANT...
AND IT'S NICE TO KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE GOING THROUGH THIS.
I'M NOT GONNA FEEL GUILTY.
SOMETIMES, WE'RE DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE WE HAVE EXPECTATIONS,
AND I THINK THAT'S OKAY.
WE SHOULD WANT TO HAVE EXPECTATIONS OF OUR FAMILIES AND GRANDCHILDREN.
BUT IF IT WASN'T FOR OUR GROUP, EVERYBODY'S BEEN SO SUPPORTIVE.
AND MANY TIMES, THEY WILL SAY SOMETHING TO ONE OF US
THAT MAYBE THEY'RE EMBARRASSED TO SAY, AND I SAID, "LISTEN...
"DOC-- YOU CAN TALK TO DOC, YOU CAN TALK TO DANIEL,
"YOU CAN TALK TO MRS. GROCE, AND THEY WILL-- COME ON," I SAID,
"JUST CALL 'EM UP OR, AT THE MEETING, MAYBE ONE OF US WILL BRING IT UP,"
AND THEN THEY WON'T KNOW IT'S DIRECTED AT YOU.
AND WE'RE JUST-- IT'S JUST FABULOUS BECAUSE A LOT OF US
CAN'T AFFORD PSYCHIATRISTS... (audience chuckling)
WE'RE NOT ON MEDICATION...
BUT WE DO-- AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S A PLACE
THAT WE CAN'T OUTWARDLY TALK ABOUT OUR FAITH,
BUT WE DO WITH EACH OTHER, AND WE PRAY FOR EACH OTHER,
AND WE CALL, AND THOSE THAT EMAIL WILL SAY, "LISTEN, I HEARD YOU.
"I FEEL YOUR PAIN.
"I'M GOING TO SOMEONE HIGHER THAN US TO HELP WITH EACH OTHER."
BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT THERE WILL BE MONIES AVAILABLE
SO THIS CAN BE AN ONGOING THING.
WE NEED IT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD DO IT, BUT 102 YEARS AGO,
WHEN I WAS A KID, WE HAD WHAT THEY HAD IN GRAND RAPIDS
CALLED "THE METHODIST COMMUNITY HOUSE."
AND...
TO THIS DAY, I WILL NEVER, EVER FORGET THOSE PEOPLE.
THEY WERE FROM THE METHODIST CHURCH-- I WAS NOT METHODIST AT THAT TIME--
BUT THEY WERE MR. AND MRS. NEWHALL.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU KNEW THAT NAME AROUND HERE,
BUT IT WAS AN OPEN BUILDING THAT YOU COULD COME IN.
WE WERE-- WE WERE NOT KEYLATCH KIDS.
WE LEFT THE DOORS OPEN, SO WHILE OUR PARENTS WORKED,
THE COMMUNITY HOUSE ALLOWED A REFUGE.
YOU COULD GO IN THERE-- GAMES THAT WE WERE TOO POOR TO HAVE--
I MEAN SIMPLE PUZZLES THAT WE WERE TOO POOR TO HAVE, WE HAD THEM THERE.
BOOKS THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE, WE HAD 'EM THERE.
BUT YOU ALWAYS HAD TO LEARN A BIBLE VERSE
FROM MR. AND MRS. NEWHALL,
AND THEY HAD TREATS FOR US...
EVEN TREATS THAT WAS NOT AFFORDABLE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD DO IT, BUT FOR SOME--
WE NEED SOMETHING
TO HELP GRANDPARENTS BE ABLE TO JUST KEEP GOING,
BECAUSE THE WORLD THAT WE ARE IN NOW,
IT TAKES ALL OF US TO HELP EACH OTHER.
IF IT'S NOT PERSONALLY, FINANCIALLY, WHATEVER,
WE HAVE TO LIFT EACH OTHER UP.
I SEE MIKE LOOKING AT THE CLOCK-- I'M GONNA GIVE THIS OVER.
BUT I AM SO GRATEFUL.
LITTLE DID I KNOW HOW MUCH I WOULD BENEFIT FROM IT, AND I TRY ALWAYS TO--
(clearing throat) EXCUSE ME--
TO ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO COME AS WELL.
>> HELLO, I'M CARMEN SCHODOWSKI FROM IONIA COUNTY.
I'VE HAD MY-- HE'S MY SON NOW-- WE ADOPTED HIM IN 2009,
BUT WE'VE HAD HIM SINCE HE WAS A YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS OLD.
BUT WHEN HE WAS BETWEEN SIX AND NINE MONTHS OLD, HE HAD "FAILURE TO THRIVE."
AND, UM, SO NOW, WE WORK WITH RADIO--
ER, REACTIVE DETACHMENT DISORDER, UM, HE'S GOT RUSSELL-SILVER SYNDROME,
A.D.H.D., O.D.D.,
UM, REALLY BAD BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS,
UM, HE'S GOT GENETIC PROBLEMS, HE'S GOT A GROWTH PROBLEM--
UM...
THEY WOULD LIKE HIM TO DO THE SHOTS FOR THE GROWTH.
UM...
THE GROUP THAT WE HAVE,
I HAVE BEEN GOING TO FOR EVER SINCE WE'VE HAD LOGAN...
FOR 12 YEARS.
HE'S 12 YEARS OLD NOW.
AND I REALLY GOT A LOT OF HELP.
WE ALL COMMUNICATE REALLY GOOD.
IF WE HAVE A PROBLEM, WE TALK ABOUT IT.
IT'S JUST AN AMAZING GROUP...
AND WE KEEP TRYING TO GET MORE AND MORE GRANDPARENTS
TO COME TO OUR GROUP.
AND RONA SHANE IS THE HEAD OF IT,
AND SHE SENDS OUT FLYERS EVERY MONTH TO REMIND US
THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE GROUP,
WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, AND EVERYTHING.
BUT I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT UNLESS I WOULDA HAD THE GROUP.
THANK YOU ALL.
>> (indistinct speaking). (all laughing)
>> WE GOTTA KEEP 'EM ON THEIR TOES, SO...
ALL RIGHT, ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE GRANDPARENTS
BEFORE WE LET 'EM GO?
OKAY, LET'S RECOGNIZE THEM.
IT'S NOT EASY TO GET UP HERE AND SHARE YOUR STORY.
(applause) THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SO, NOW WE NEED TO TRANSITION
ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE SUPPORT GROUP LEADERS,
COME ON UP, TAKE A CHAIR.
SUPPORT GROUP LEADERS.
COME ON, SUPPORT GROUP LEADERS.
SUPPORT GROUP LEADERS, COME ON UP.
(general chatter)
ALL RIGHT, NOW, SOME OF YOU HAVE BEEN EMAILED A LIST OF QUESTIONS.
THERE ARE 11.
THERE'S NO WAY WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO COVER THEM ALL, BUT...
BUT WHAT I REALLY WANT YOU TO DO IS EACH INTRODUCE YOURSELF,
WHAT COUNTY YOU SERVE,
TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OF YOUR PARTICULAR GRANDPARENT GROUP,
AND THEN ADDRESS ANY OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU WANT TO THAT ARE ON THE SHEET, OKAY?
SO, I THINK-- MANDY HASN'T SEEN THIS, SO I THINK I'LL START ON THIS END.
YOU'VE SEEN THE INFORMATION, OR-- KRIS HASN'T?
THEN, WE'LL START-- CAROL HAS, RIGHT?
SO, WE'LL LET CAROL START AND THEN KRIS.
>> MY NAME IS CAROL BURBA AND I'M FROM LAKE COUNTY, AND WE--
OUR AGENCY, FAMILY HEALTH CARE, HAS "GRANDPARENTS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN,"
THAT'S WHAT WE CALL IT, OUR GROUP.
I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM FOR SEVEN YEARS, AND...
(clearing throat) WHEN I FIRST STARTED, UM...
I WAS A LITTLE TAKEN ABACK
BECAUSE I THOUGHT, "OH, BOY, YOU KNOW, THESE KIDS."
(laughing) THERE'S A LOT OF PROBLEMS GOING ON THERE,
AND MY PART OF IT, AT THE BEGINNING, WAS TO STRICTLY--
WHEN THEY COME IN, TO TAKE THE KIDS AND OCCUPY 'EM.
NOW, I'M A FORMER PRE-SCHOOL TEACHER, SCHOOL TEACHER,
AND SO I STARTED PLAYING WITH THESE KIDS ONCE A MONTH,
WORKING WITH THEM, AND GREW TO LOVE THEM A WHOLE LOT.
THEY'RE A REAL SPECIAL BUNCH.
WE HAVE OUR MEETINGS ONCE A MONTH, AS I SAID.
I CALL THE GRANDPARENTS THE DAY BEFORE TO REMIND 'EM.
WE HAVE ANOTHER PERSON WHO WORKS WITH THEM--
HIS NAME IS RON, AND HE'S A GRANDPARENT HIMSELF RAISING GRANDCHILDREN
AND A MASTER SOCIAL WORKER.
HE'S IN THERE A LOT WITH THE GRANDPARENTS, AND, UM...
WHAT ELSE DO WE DO?
WE TRY TO DO AN OUTING EVERY SUMMER.
AT CHRISTMASTIME, DEPENDING ON FUNDING-- A.A.A. HAS BEEN VERY GENEROUS--
WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE A CHRISTMAS PARTY AND SANTA COMES FOR ALL THE KIDS.
I KNOW I'M, LIKE, KID-DRIVEN HERE.
AS FAR AS THE GRANDPARENTS ARE CONCERNED,
I KNOW THAT THEY LOOK FORWARD TO THIS TIME VERY MUCH.
ONE OF OUR GRANDPARENTS--
A GREAT-GRANDMOTHER RAISING HER GREAT-GRANDSON--
CAME ONE TIME FOR A A.A.A. DISCUSSION, AND THE LITTLE BOY SHARED--
HE WAS 11 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME--
HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, I LOVE GOING TO GRANDPARENTS GROUP
"BECAUSE I KNOW I'M NORMAL NOW."
AND I MEAN, THIS LITTLE BOY HAD--
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE EVERYONE AT SCHOOL TALKS ABOUT "MOM AND DAD,"
AND IT WAS-- YOU KNOW, HE'S BEING RAISED BY GREAT-GRANDMA ALL BY HERSELF.
AND I MEAN, JUST TO SEE THE SMILE ON HIS FACE, YOU KNOW?
"I'M NORMAL."
UM, WE TRY TO BRING IN INTERESTING SPEAKERS FOR THE GRANDPARENTS.
WE ASK THEM ALL THE TIME, "WELL, WHO DO YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM?
"WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW?"
WE'VE HAD D.H.S. COME IN,
SOCIAL WORKERS, UM, EDUCATORS.
WE ALSO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT,
BEING FROM A HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATION THAT'S SPONSORING THE GROUP,
WE ALL TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MEET HEALTHCARE NEEDS.
WE ALSO INTEGRATE--
IN THE SCHOOLS AROUND WHERE WE ARE,
WE HAVE TEEN HEALTH CENTERS, OR ADOLESCENT HEALTH CENTERS,
AND SO WE TRY TO INTEGRATE THAT.
THE KIDS GO TO THE HEALTH CENTERS A LOT WITHIN THE SCHOOLS.
YES, WE PROVIDE CHILDCARE.
YOU'RE LOOKING AT HER, UM... (giggling)
I'M THE PERSON WHO SCOURS THE COUNTY
AND TRIES TO FIND THE GRANDPARENTS AND GET NEW MEMBERS.
IF I GET A LEAD, I'M ON THE PHONE OR SHOWING UP AT THEIR HOUSE.
AND I'VE HEARD A LOT OF STORIES
AND I KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF COMPASSIONATE PEOPLE OUT THERE
WHO ARE DOING THIS.
HEALTH ISSUES FOR GRANDPARENTS.
WE HAVE ONE GRANDMOTHER WHO'S CONSTANTLY HAVING SURGERY,
AND HER BIGGEST FEAR IS THAT SHE'S NOT GOING TO BE AROUND
TO SEE HER GRANDCHILDREN GRADUATE,
AND I KNOW THAT'S A FEAR OF A LOT OF THE GRANDPARENTS IN OUR GROUP.
AND... I DON'T KNOW.
I'VE BEEN RAMBLING, SO NOW I'M GONNA PASS THE MICROPHONE.
THANK YOU.
>> HI, I'M KRIS WOOD, AND I ALSO WORK AT FAMILY HEALTH CARE,
AND CAROL DOES GRANDPARENTS GROUP IN LAKE COUNTY-- I DO IN NEWAYGO.
I HAVE A FACILITATOR COME IN ONCE A MONTH,
AND HE IS ALSO A GRANDPARENT RAISING GRANDKIDS.
HE WRITES FOR "THE INDICATOR," OUR PAPER IN NEWAYGO COUNTY
AND STUFF LIKE THAT, AND HE WILL ALSO BRING IN PEOPLE.
HE JUST HAD PEOPLE FROM THE COURTS COME IN WITH CUSTODY AND ADOPTION,
TO GET ALL THAT INFORMATION, 'CAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE WHERE OUR PARENTS ARE AT.
THEY WANT A LOT OF LEGAL INFORMATION,
SO WE TRY TO GEAR MORE TOWARDS THAT.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, RESPITE FOR THEM,
BECAUSE YOU GOT TO TAKE TIME FOR YOURSELF
AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF,
AND YES, YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE DAYCARE PROVIDER!
(laughing) SO...
WE ALSO, WHEN THE PARENTS GO OFF AND BE PARENTS,
THEN WE KEEP THE KIDS IN A SEPARATE AREA,
AND THEY JUST GET TO PLAY AND HAVE FUN, AND SO, THAT'S GREAT.
UM, LET'S SEE...
OH, OUR GROUP IS GROWING, AND NEWAYGO COUNTY'S QUITE A BIG COUNTY,
AND WE KINDA MEET MORE TOWARDS THE NORTHERN END OF THE COUNTY,
AND WE HAVE PARENTS COME FROM ALL OVER.
SO, WE'RE DEBATING ON ADDING ANOTHER GROUP
DOWN TOWARDS THE SOUTHERN END OF THE COUNTY,
SO THAT WE AT LEAST DON'T HAVE PEOPLE TRAVELING SO FAR.
SO, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOOD NEWS,
'CAUSE THAT JUST MEANS THERE'S MORE GRANDPARENTS OUT THERE RAISING GRANDKIDS,
OR, YOU KNOW... THAT'S KIND OF A CATCH-22.
THAT'S KINDA WHERE WE'RE GOING, SO...
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU CAN ASK.
>> HI, I'M JAN WAGNER.
UM, NOT ONLY DO I COORDINATE AND FACILITATE THE SUPPORT GROUP
THAT WE HAVE IN MASON COUNTY, I'M ALSO A GRANDMOTHER.
I HAVE A SIX YEAR OLD GRANDSON.
WE'VE HAD HIM EXCLUSIVELY SINCE HE WAS TWO.
WE'VE NOW FILED FOR ADOPTION.
UM, WE HAVE THE FATHER TERMINATED,
AND WE HAVE ANOTHER HEARING COMING UP NEXT TUESDAY MORNING.
HOPEFULLY, THAT WILL BE THE END.
THE MOTHER DOESN'T EVER SHOW UP FOR ANYTHING, SO--
AND THAT IS MY DAUGHTER.
SO ANYWAY, I STARTED WORKING WITH THE SUPPORT GROUP
AS THE FACILITATOR JUST IN JANUARY WHEN WE LOST MISS JUNE,
WHO HAD STARTED IT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING--
15, 16 YEARS AGO, WHATEVER IT--
AND SHE PASSED AWAY, AND THE TORCH GOT PASSED TO ME,
UM, PARTIALLY BECAUSE I HAVE THE YOUNGEST CHILD--
HAD THE YOUNGEST CHILD IN THE GROUP AT THE TIME.
I WAS PROBABLY GONNA BE AROUND THE LONGEST.
WHEN I CAME INTO THE GROUP FOUR YEARS AGO, UM...
I LEARNED EVERYTHING FROM EVERYBODY IN THAT ROOM.
AND THAT'S THE WAY OUR SUPPORT GROUP CONDUCTS ITSELF.
I MEAN, IT'S REALLY NOT LIKE THERE'S ANYBODY
THAT HAS THE BALL IN THEIR COURT.
WE ALL HELP EACH OTHER.
IT'S STRICTLY SUPPORTIVE TO EACH MEMBER.
SOMEBODY HAS TO GO TO COURT, THEY WANT SOMEBODY SITTING BESIDE 'EM,
YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT THERE'S GONNA BE ONE OR TWO MEMBERS OF THE GROUP
SITTING BESIDE THEM.
IF WE ARE STRUGGLING WITH SCHOOLS,
IF WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH FINANCES--
WE LIVE IN AN AREA THAT RESOURCES ARE PRETTY TIGHT.
MASON COUNTY IS NOT WHAT YOU WOULD CALL
"AN EXTREMELY PHILANTHROPIC AREA"
FOR SITUATIONS THAT WE'RE IN.
I MEAN, IT'S-- IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO BE.
SO, WE HAVE OUR OWN FUNDRAISERS.
WE DO PICTURES WITH SANTA CLAUSE FOR A LITTLE MONEY, WHICH IS NOW--
WITH THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING ELSE--
COSTING US AS MUCH TO DO IT AS WE COULD MAKE IN A PROFIT.
UM, WE DO SEEK OUT SOME DONATIONS.
MISS JUNE USED TO GO DOOR TO DOOR TO DOOR TO DOOR.
UM, THAT'S A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME.
I HAVE TO WORK ON THAT PART OF KNOCKING ON DOORS
AND ASKING WITH MY COFFEE CAN IN MY HAND FOR MONEY FOR THE GRANDPARENTS GROUP.
BUT YOU KNOW, WE FOUND A GRANT.
WE GOT THAT, AND...
WE'VE ALSO BEEN ABLE TO TAKE A FEW MEMBERS DOWN
TO (indistinct) CONFERENCE IN LANSING THIS YEAR,
WHICH, AS JUDY TOUCHED ON,
THERE WAS A LOT OF TRAUMA TRAINING GOING ON WITH THAT.
SO, WE DO A LOT OF, UM, RESEARCHING.
I THINK BECAUSE THE GROUP HAD BEEN TOGETHER SO LONG,
EVERYBODY KNEW EVERYBODY'S STORY, UP TO A POINT,
AND SO WE NEED TO BRANCH OUT.
AND THE GROUP HAD BEEN VERY INVOLVED WITH THE PROCESS
OF TRYING TO GET THE BILL PASSED TO SUPPORT GRANDPARENTS
THAT WERE RAISING THEIR GRANDCHILDREN.
I'VE KIND OF TAKEN THAT BALL BACK UP AGAIN,
AND THE GROUP IS WORKING ON IT, TOO.
WE'RE TRYING TO UNITE A LOT OF THE SUPPORT GROUPS
AROUND THE ENTIRE STATE OF MICHIGAN, BECAUSE IT HAS TO DO WITH NUMBERS.
I MEAN, EVERYBODY WANTS TO KNOW, "WELL, HOW MANY VOTERS DOES THAT REALLY MEAN?"
BEFORE THEY REALLY WANT TO GET INVOLVED.
WE GET A LOT OF SYMPATHY, A LOT OF "YES"ES ON AN ELECTION YEAR,
AND, "OH, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU PEOP--"
EVERYBODY JUST ASSUMES THAT WE'RE RIGHT THERE,
WRAPPED UP WITH THE FOSTER SYSTEM, GETTING ALL OF THE BENEFITS.
AND WHEN YOU EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE THAT WE DON'T GET ANYTHING
OTHER THAN WHAT YOU WOULD QUALIFY FOR BEING UNDERNEATH THE POVERTY LEVEL,
UM, THEY'RE SHOCKED.
SO, WE NEED TO BRING ABOUT THIS AWARENESS AGAIN.
WE ALL NEED TO GO OUT AND WE ALL NEED TO TALK EVERYWHERE.
IT'S HARD TO BRING GRANDPARENTS OUT OF THEIR COMFORT ZONE.
THAT VIDEO WAS VERY, VERY GOOD ABOUT THAT,
THAT FOR ALL OF US THAT ARE IN OUR GROUP--
AND THERE'S MAYBE TEN OF US REGULAR MEMBERS--
THERE'S PROBABLY TWO TO THREE TIMES MORE FAMILIES
OUT THERE IN JUST OUR COUNTY,
BUT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO EXPOSE YOURSELF.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL YOUR STORY AND HAVE TO...
HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THESE CHILDREN SUFFERED THIS TRAUMA,
THEY SUFFERED EMOTIONAL ISSUES,
AND YOU ARE NOW SUFFERING
FINANCIALLY, EMOTIONALLY,
AND DEFINITELY PHYSICALLY FOR THE ENERGY AND EVERYTHING,
AND IT'S BECAUSE OF ONE OF YOUR CHILDREN...
AND THAT'S HARD.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE PUT THAT ASIDE AND WE SAY, "WHATEVER IT TAKES
"IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.
"IT'S NOT IN MY BEST INTEREST, IT'S NOT MY DAUGHTER'S BEST INTEREST.
"IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CHILD."
AND THAT'S WHAT OUR GROUP FOCUSES ON.
WE GET TOGETHER, WE SUPPORT EACH OTHER,
WE BRING IN OUTSIDE RESOURCES, AND WE ASK, "WHAT DO WE WANT?"
BUT IT IS A GRANDPARENT-RUN SUPPORT GROUP.
WE'RE UMBRELLA-ED UNDER THE AREA ON AGING.
IT GOES THROUGH THE SCOTTVILLE SCHOOL DISTRICT,
BUT IT'S GRANDPARENT-RUN AND IT'S FOR GRANDPARENT OR OTHER RELATIVES
WHO ARE RAISING CHILDREN.
SO, THANK YOU.
>> I'M RONA SHANE, AND I FACILITATE THE GROUP IN IONIA COUNTY.
I'VE BEEN DOING THIS... I WOULD SAY TEN YEARS.
I DON'T KEEP TRACK OF THE-- TIME FLIES.
THE OLDER YOU GET, THE FASTER IT GOES. (audience laughing)
THE GROUP ORIGINALLY STARTED OUT WITH SOMEBODY ELSE FACILITATING IT,
AND THEY WERE USING THE MANUAL,
I THINK, THAT WAS CREATED THROUGH "COOPERATIVE EXTENSION."
THIS NEXT YEAR, I CAME IN IT AND WE DID FOLLOW SOME OF THAT...
BUT AS THE GROUP HAS EVOLVED, WE HAVE BROUGHT IN SPEAKERS,
FRIEND OF THE COURT,
D.H.S., UM...
COOPERATIVE EXTENSION, BUDGETING...
MASSAGE.
A VARIETY OF TOPICS.
AND AT THIS POINT IN OUR EXISTENCE,
WE SEEM TO HAVE FOLKS THAT ARE INTERESTED IN DOING CRAFTS,
WHICH I DON'T TALK ABOUT TOO LOUDLY
BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY FIT THE CRITERIA FOR A GRANDPARENT GROUP,
BUT THIS IS WHAT THE WOMEN ENJOY DOING,
AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE DO, AND THERE'S A LOT OF TALKING
THAT GOES ON WHILE WE'RE DOING DIFFERENT TYPES OF CRAFTS.
USUALLY, THE CRAFT IS SOMETHING THAT THE GRANDPARENT
CAN TEACH TO THEIR GRANDCHILD, DEPENDING ON THE AGE,
BUT I KEEP ASKING FOR, "WHO WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO BRING IN?"
AND, "OH, LET'S... LET'S DO 'CANDLES' AGAIN," OR--
SO, WE'RE KIND OF FOLLOWING WHAT THE GROUP REALLY WANTS TO DO.
UM, I HAVE FOUND THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO RECRUIT NEW PEOPLE.
I TRY TO GO THROUGH THE SCHOOLS AND THE SECRETARIES AT THE SCHOOLS,
BECAUSE I FIGURE THAT THEY KNOW, USUALLY,
AS MUCH AS ANYBODY ELSE,
AND PERHAPS HAVE MORE TIME TO INFORMALLY TALK
WITH THE GRANDPARENT WHO MAY BE BRINGING THE CHILD IN OR SOMETHING,
AND ACQUAINT THEM WITH, "HEY, THERE IS A GROUP OUT THERE
"THAT YOU COULD COME TO AND JUST RELAX."
WE DO PROVIDE CHILDCARE WHILE WE ARE MEETING.
WE MEET ON A MONTHLY BASIS, AS DO MOST GROUPS.
WE HAVE A SNACK, USUALLY,
AND A SNACK FOR THE KIDS WHO MEET UPSTAIRS.
WE ARE FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO USE
THE SPECIAL ED FACILITY IN OUR COUNTY.
AND SO, THERE IS A PLAYROOM THAT WORKS VERY WELL
FOR THE KIDS WHILE WE'RE MEETING DOWNSTAIRS.
IT'S A VERY INFORMAL GROUP.
I THINK EVERYBODY FEELS PRETTY COMFORTABLE
AND ARE ABLE TO BRING ANYTHING TO THE TABLE THAT IS ON THEIR MIND.
WE HAVE NOT TAKEN THE POLITICAL--
THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE OF INTEREST
TO OUR GROUP AT THIS POINT.
BUT CERTAINLY, ALL THE GRANDPARENTS...
ARE WANTING TO WELCOME OTHER FOLKS WHO ARE GOING THROUGH
THE SAME KIND OF THING THAT THEY ARE.
IS THERE ANYTHING, CARMEN, THAT-- >> (indistinct speaking).
>> OKAY.
ANY QUESTIONS?
>> (indistinct speaking)...
...(indistinct speaking)...
>> I THINK THEY DO THAT.
PLUS, FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT,
SOME OF THEM CAN'T DO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS
IN THEIR PARTICULAR HOME SITUATION.
THERE'S NOT A BLOCK OF TIME THAT THEY'RE FREE TO DO THAT,
SO IT SERVES SEVERAL PURPOSES, I THINK.
>> OKAY, I'M DANIEL GROCE, AND, UH...
I'M WITH THE GRAND RAPIDS OR KENT COUNTY GROUP.
I'M A CO-FACILITATOR.
DR. HOLSTEGE WAS MY PARTNER FOR YEARS,
UNTIL HIS RECENT RETIREMENT FROM BEING INVOLVED.
AND ALSO, UH...
MIKE AND I CO-FACILITATED A GROUP.
UM, ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS IS THAT, ADMINISTRATIVELY, WE HAVE--
MIKE TAKES CARE OF EVERYTHING.
AND SO, WE DO NOT HAVE TO CONCERN OURSELVES
WITH TRYING TO DO ANY-- SOME--
MANY OF THE DAY-TO-DAY KINDS OF ACTIVITIES
THAT WOULD NEED TO OCCUR FOR A GROUP TO REMAIN EFFECTIVE.
OUR GROUP CONSISTS OF MAINLY WOMEN...
UH, AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN.
HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE PERSONS
FROM OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS JOIN IN, AND, UH...
BUT THE PRIMARY NUMBERS
ARE WITH WOMEN OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN DESCENT.
UM, IT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING GROUP.
THE AGE RANGE OF OUR GROUP--
OUR OLDEST MEMBER WAS 93,
AND SHE WAS PARENTING A GREAT-GRANDCHILD
WHO WAS DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED... (chuckling)
WHICH I THOUGHT WAS RATHER AMAZING.
HER, UH...
DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED GRANDCHILD WAS SO ATTACHED TO THE GROUP,
SHE LIKES TO CONTINUE TO COME. (audience chuckling)
BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE CHILDCARE. (all laughing)
AND I BELIEVE OUR YOUNGEST IS PROBABLY IN THEIR 40s.
WE'VE DEALT WITH A RANGE OF PROBLEMS,
AND MANY OF THE THINGS THAT DR. HOLSTEGE MENTIONED,
REGARDING THE KIND OF RESOURCES OF THE PERSONS COMING
ARE THOSE PERSONS WHO HAVE ATTENDED OUR GROUPS
AND MADE PRESENTATIONS.
GENERALLY, WHAT WE DO IS THAT WE START
WITH AN HOUR OF EDUCATIONAL KINDS OF MATERIAL,
AND THEN WE SHIFT TO THE SUPPORT ASPECT
IN TERMS OF MORE OF A GROUP MEETING,
WHEREBY PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO SHARE THE ISSUES THEY HAVE
OR THE CONCERNS THEY HAVE.
WHAT I HAVE FOUND TO BE QUITE INTERESTING...
AND THAT IS THE WHOLE ISSUE OF SHAME SURROUNDING HAVING TO TAKE CARE
OF A CHILD OR GRANDCHILDREN
BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE MISSTEPS OF A PERSON'S CHILDREN.
YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF LIKE... GETTING A DIVORCE.
IF YOUR SPOUSE DIES, IT MAKES MOVING ON EASIER,
BECAUSE THAT'S A LEGITIMATE REASON.
BUT IF IT'S FOR FALLING OUT OF LOVE... (chuckling)
THAT'S NOT LEGIT IN OUR SOCIETY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, AS PARENTS,
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF OUR CHILDREN,
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO RAISE 'EM PROPERLY,
AND I THINK WHAT DR. HOLSTEGE SAID IS SO APPROPRIATE,
AND THAT IS OUR CHILDREN MAKE CHOICES
THAT WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH...
AND CONSEQUENTLY, BECAUSE OF THE CHOICES THEY MAKE,
WE END UP BEING IN THE ROLE
OF GRANDPARENTS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
ONE OF THE OTHER KINDS OF THINGS THAT I HAVE FOUND INTERESTING
IN TERMS OF THE GROUP PROCESS--
OUR GROUP HAS CHANGED SOMEWHAT, AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT,
BECAUSE MY WIFE HAS JOINED AS A CO-FACILITATOR.
AND QUITE OFTEN, I WOULD GO HOME
AND SHE SAID, "HOW IS IT THAT TWO MEN...
(all laughing)
"ARE TRYING TO TELL THOSE WOMEN HOW TO RAISE CHILDREN?"
(audience laughing)
I SAID, "IT'S QUITE EASY.
"WE JUST TELL 'EM WHAT TO DO." (all laughing)
BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT--
I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SEE OCCURRING
SOMETIMES IN THE GROUP, AND THAT IS MISINFORMATION
ON THE PART OF SOME GRANDPARENTS.
AND SOMETIMES, IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE TO CORRECT OR TO REDIRECT THEM,
IN TERMS OF WHAT IT IS THEY'RE SAYING
OR THE VALIDITY OF WHAT IT IS THEY'RE SAYING,
AND SOMETIMES, I CAN BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE, AGAIN,
NOT WANTING TO PUBLICLY EMBARRASS ANYBODY,
BUT ALSO TO HAVE THEM CONTINUE
AS A VALUED GROUP MEMBER.
YOU KNOW, EVERYONE DOESN'T ALWAYS KNOW "WHAT'S RIGHT,"
AND I HAVE TO PUT THE "WHAT'S RIGHT" IN QUOTATIONS BECAUSE, UM...
MY WIFE WAS TELLING ME THAT THE ONLY THING NORMAL
IS WHAT'S ON THE WASHING MACHINE. (audience chuckling)
(laughing) BUT YOU KNOW,
WE ALWAYS THINKIN' ABOUT WHAT'S "NORMAL" AND THIS KIND OF THING,
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH HUMAN BEINGS,
"NORMAL" IS A RATHER ELUSIVE TERM,
SIMPLY BECAUSE OF...
THE RANGE OF PEOPLE AND THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN.
AND SO, WITH OUR GROUP,
WE SPEND A GREAT DEAL OF TIME
DEALING WITH SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THE GRANDPARENTS HAVE--
ADDICTION, INCARCERATION.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SOMETIMES FOLK DON'T TALK ABOUT,
AND THAT IS WE HAVE SOME GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE AFRAID OF THEIR GRANDCHILDREN.
WE HAVE GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE AFRAID OF THEIR--
NOT ONLY ARE THE GRANDPARENTS, BUT THE PARENTS ARE, ALSO.
AND SO-- AND THAT'S ONE OF THE KINDS OF THE THINGS
WE ATTEMPT TO OFFER SUPPORT AND TO PROVIDE THEM
OR SHARE WITH THEM POSSIBLE RESOURCES OUT THERE
THAT CAN BE OF ASSISTANCE TO THEM.
THEY'RE FORTUNATE IN KENT COUNTY THAT WE HAVE A NUMBER OF RESOURCES,
AND WE SHARE WITH THEM "THE CHILDREN'S RESOURCE GUIDE"--
OR "FAMILY AND CHILD RESOURCE GUIDE"
THAT HAS ALL THE AGENCIES WITHIN THE COUNTY THAT PROVIDES SERVICES
AND THE VARIOUS KINDS OF SERVICES AVAILABLE.
SO, WITH THAT, I'LL MOVE ON... >> THANK YOU.
MY NAME IS MANDY McGREGOR.
I WORK-- I CO-FACILITATE WITH SHARON BRIGGS, AND I--
OUT OF "LIFE GUIDANCES," OR IT'S NOW "CHERRY STREET HEALTH SERVICES."
WE RUN A PROGRAM CALLED "GRANDPARENTS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN,"
AND IT WAS AN ALUMNI GROUP.
I WEAR TWO HATS IN THIS,
BECAUSE I AM ALSO A GRANDPARENT RAISING A GRANDCHILD.
MY GRANDDAUGHTER NOW IS 17 YEARS OF AGE.
I'VE HAD HER SINCE BIRTH WITH JUST ABOUT SIX MONTHS OF HER LIFE
SHE WAS GONE OUT OF OUR HOUSE,
AND I'VE HAD HER LEGALLY SINCE SHE WAS TWO AND A HALF YEARS OF AGE.
I WENT TO A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT WITH MY GRANDDAUGHTER,
AND I WAS IN TEARS.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH HER.
I DON'T HAVE ANY MEDICAL RIGHTS!
THEY DUMPED HER ON MY FRONT PORCH AND SAID, "HERE SHE IS."
AND I KNEW SHE HAD TO GO TO THE DOCTOR, I KNEW THINGS HAD TO BE TAKEN CARE OF...
I MADE A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT, I WENT TO THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE,
AND THE DOCTOR LOOKED AT ME AND HE, "LADY, YOU NEED HELP."
AND I SAID, "THAT'S RIGHT." (audience laughing)
A SOCIAL WORKER CAME IN AND SAT DOWN WITH ME AND TALKED TO ME,
AND TALKED TO ME ABOUT A PROGRAM AT LIFE GUIDANCE, WAY BACK WHEN.
THIS WAS MANY, MANY YEARS AGO.
I CALLED THEM UP, I WENT IN,
AND, AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, MY HUSBAND WAS WORKING OUT OF TOWN.
HE WOULD COME HOME ON WEEKENDS.
SO, IT WAS I, BY MYSELF.
I TOOK A LEAVE OF ABSENCE FROM MY JOB,
BECAUSE I NOW HAD A SMALL CHILD TO TAKE CARE OF.
I WENT TO LIFE GUIDANCES,
I WAS INTRODUCED TO A WONDERFUL LADY THERE--
WILHELMINA WRIGHT--
AND I JOINED THE GRANDPARENTS GROUP.
AT THAT TIME, THEY HAD A PROGRAM WHERE YOU WENT FOR SIX WEEKS IN A ROW.
YOU MET IN THE EVENING, YOU BROUGHT YOUR GRANDCHILD.
AS A GROUP, YOU HAD A MEAL, AND THEN THEY TOOK THE GRANDCHILDREN
AND THEY ALWAYS HAD SOMETHING EDUCATIONAL FOR THE GRANDPARENTS.
WONDERFUL PROGRAM.
AFTER SIX WEEKS, YOU GRADUATED.
THEN, THEY DEVELOPED A SUPPORT GROUP.
THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE LEFT NOW IS OUR SUPPORT GROUP.
I HAVE BELONGED TO THIS GROUP, LIKE I SAY, FOR 12 YEARS.
I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITHOUT IT.
THE GAL THAT WAS HELPING-- SHARON--
BEFORE STEPPED DOWN AND WANTED SOMEONE ELSE TO HELP.
I WANTED TO BELONG TO IT AND TO KEEP IT GOING,
BECAUSE THERE IS SUCH A GREAT NEED OUT THERE.
WE MEET ON THE TEEN MONDAY OF EVERY MONTH.
FOR INSTANCE, THIS MONTH IT'S MAY 14th.
WE MEET FROM 6:00 TO 8:00 P.M.
AT ST. ANDREW'S CHURCH ON 3 MILE.
THEY ARE KIND ENOUGH TO GIVE US THE MEETING ROOM FREE OF CHARGE.
THE CHURCH REQUIRES THAT MY DAYCARE PEOPLE
HAVE TO BE OVER THE AGE OF 18,
AND THAT I HAVE TO HAVE TWO DAYCARE PEOPLE.
SO, I HAVE TWO DAYCARE PEOPLE-- CHILDCARE, RATHER--
WHO COME IN, TAKE THE KIDS IN A PLAY AREA,
AND WE MEET IN A SEPARATE PART OF THE BUILDING.
WE MEET FOR TWO HOURS.
WE TRY TO HAVE IT ONE HOUR OF EDUCATIONAL
AND, IF I HAVE A SPEAKER COME IN,
THE SPEAKER WILL COME, DO THEIR THING,
AND THEN AFTERWARDS WE KINDA TALK AMONGST EACH OTHER.
ANY PROBLEMS THAT HAVE COME UP, ANYBODY THAT NEEDS ANY HELP,
ANYBODY THAT NEEDS ANY ADVICE, WE TRY TO TALK IT OVER...
AMONGST EACH OTHER.
FOR INSTANCE, THIS MONTH, I'M GONNA GIVE US A PUSH
BECAUSE IN THE MONTH OF MAY,
I'M SHOWING A MOVIE THAT I UNDERSTAND IS GOING THROUGH THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS
AND IT'S CALLED "COURAGEOUS."
AND SO, I'M SHOWING THIS MOVIE-- IT'S A TWO HOUR MOVIE--
AND IT'S, I UNDERSTAND, ABOUT INTEGRITY.
AND IT'S GOING TO BE FOR MY GRANDPARENTS...
AND BECAUSE THE GROUP I BELONG TO, WE HAVE TEENAGERS,
WE HAVE TEENAGE ISSUES,
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A VERY GOOD MOVIE
FOR TEENAGERS AND MIDDLE-SCHOOLERS,
SO I AM INVITING THEM TO ALSO WATCH THE MOVIE WITH US.
BUT WE HAVE DONE PROGRAMS IN THE PAST,
WE'VE HAD GUEST SPEAKERS COME IN
AND TALK ABOUT ELDER HEALTH, ELDER EXERCISING.
I'VE HAD SOMEONE COME IN FOR ORGANIZATIONAL SKILLS,
BECAUSE AS WE GET OLDER, WE'VE GOT MEDICAL BILLS,
WE'VE GOT THIS CHILD'S DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT,
WE'VE GOT THIS APPOINTMENT, THAT APPOINTMENT,
AND JUST KEEPING TRACK OF EVERYTHING, SO WE HAD ONE ON ORGANIZATION.
UH, SHARON DID ONE, TWO MONTHS AGO,
IN REGARDING PARENTING WISELY.
WE DID IT FOR THE OLDER KIDS
AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SECOND PART TO THAT
ON DOING IT FOR THE YOUNGER KIDS.
I'VE ALSO-- I'VE NOTICED...
BECAUSE... OF THE GRANDPARENTS,
THEY'RE GOING THROUGH A GRIEF PROCESS, TOO.
THE GRIEF PROCESS OF LOSING THINGS, OF LOSING THEIR ADULT CHILD,
NOT JUST THROUGH DEATH.
SO, I HAD A GRIEF COUNSELOR COME IN AND SHE GAVE A TWO-HOUR PRESENTATION,
AND SHE WAS SO GOOD THAT-- IN THE SPRING, SHE GAVE HER PRESENTATION--
I WAS ASKED IF SHE COULD COME BACK IN THE FALL FOR A FOLLOW-UP.
AND SHE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB WITH MY GRANDPARENTS.
I'VE HAD PEOPLE FROM THE COURT SYSTEM COME.
I RECENTLY WANTED TO HAVE SOMEBODY COME IN AGAIN FROM SOCIAL SECURITY...
BUT IN KENT COUNTY, THEY NO LONGER COME TO GROUPS TO SPEAK ANYMORE
BECAUSE OF FUNDING.
SO, I TRY ONCE A YEAR TO PASS OUT A SURVEY TO FIND OUT
WHAT MY GRANDPARENTS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT,
WHETHER IT'S HEALTH ISSUES--
AND I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY
THAT IN ORDER FOR US TO TAKE CARE OF OUR GRANDKIDS,
WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES FIRST.
SO, WE HAVE TO GET OUT THERE AND WE HAVE TO EXERCISE,
WE HAVE TO EAT RIGHT,
WE HAVE TO GO TO OUR DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENTS,
WE GOTTA TAKE OUR MEDICATION,
YOU KNOW, AND WE GOTTA HAVE OUR RELAXATION,
WHATEVER IT IS.
SO, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FOCUS ON THAT A LITTLE BIT,
BECAUSE IN OUR GROUP,
WE'RE ALL GETTING OLDER AND MEDICAL ISSUES ARE COMING UP.
AND WE HAVE GRANDPARENTS THAT HAVE HAD SURGERY ON THEIR FEET,
ON THEIR KNEE REPLACEMENTS, ON HIP REPLACEMENTS,
OR THEY HAVE CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS.
SO, TRY TO GET THEM SOME INFORMATION.
BUT YOU KNOW, IF WE SIT AROUND AND IF I HAVE A SPEAKER FOR NEXT MONTH,
AND WE SIT AROUND AND DECIDE THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER ISSUE THAT'S BIGGER,
WE TRY TO WORK AROUND THAT,
SO IT'S INTERESTING AND THEY WANT TO COME BACK.
WE HAVE A CORE GROUP OF ABOUT 20 GRANDPARENTS.
WE MEET IN THE EVENING.
UM, WE PROVIDE CHILDCARE.
IN SEPTEMBER, WE HAVE A PICNIC OUT AT THE PARK.
WE CELEBRATE GRANDPARENTS DAY.
AND IN DECEMBER, WE HAVE A CHRISTMAS POTLUCK.
LAST YEAR, I TRIED-- IN THE MONTH OF JUNE, WE HAD A GAME NIGHT,
WHICH WE KEPT THE KIDS WITH US AND WE BROUGHT A BOARD GAME
AND HAD SNACKS, SO EVERYBODY WAS ALL TOGETHER.
BECAUSE AGAIN, SHOWING THESE CHILDREN THAT THEY ARE NOT ALONE.
LIKE THE WORDS OF MY GRANDDAUGHTER--
SHE SAYS, "YOU KNOW, IT'S ROUGH BEING RAISED BY OLD PEOPLE."
(audience laughing) AND I SAID, "YEAH, I KNOW.
"BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?
"I'M OLD, BUT I'VE BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK ONCE ALREADY, SO I KNOW A LITTLE BIT."
(audience laughing) BUT, UM--
AND AS FAR AS RECRUITING NEW PEOPLE,
I HAVE TO COORDINATE MY SCHEDULE WITH THE CHURCH SCHEDULE,
BECAUSE THE CHURCH GIVES US A FREE MEETING ROOM.
SO, IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, I MEET WITH THE CHURCH SECRETARY
AND WE MAKE UP A SCHEDULE ON WHICH DAYS WILL WORK OUT,
AND WHEN WE GET A FLYER MADE, I SIT DOWN WITH THE OLD PHONEBOOK,
I GET ON THE OLD INTERNET, SEND IT TO ALL THE DAYCARE CENTERS,
ALL THE COUNSELING SERVICES, ANYBODY I CAN THINK WOULD COME UP WITH--
THAT HAVE A GRANDPARENT RAISING A GRANDCHILD.
ALSO, AT LIFE GUIDANCE, OR CHERRY STREET HEALTH SERVICES,
I HAVE A HOTLINE THAT PEOPLE CALL.
I TRY TO CHECK THE HOTLINE AT LEAST THREE TIMES A WEEK,
AND, UM...
IF I CAN GET AHOLD OF A NAME, I WILL GIVE THEM A CALL,
I GIVE THEM A PERSONAL INVITE, I SEND THEM OUT A SCHEDULE.
LIKE I SAID, OUR MEETING IS THIS MONDAY NIGHT.
THIS AFTERNOON OR TOMORROW, I WILL GO HOME,
AND I MAKE A PHONE CALL AND TALK TO EACH ONE OF MY GRANDPARENTS
TO REMIND THEM OF OUR MEETING MONDAY NIGHT.
AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.
THANK YOU.
>> OKAY, THANK YOU.
(applause)
OUR PANEL'S NOT EXCUSED YET.
I'VE GOT ONE MORE QUESTION, BUT I HAVE TO SET THE STAGE FIRST.
YOU KNOW, WHY IS IT WE'RE DOING THIS EVENT TODAY?
WHY DID WE INVITE REPRESENTATIVES FROM AGING SERVICE NETWORK AGENCIES
AND ALSO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM?
BECAUSE WE NEED YOUR HELP.
WE NEED YOUR HELP.
ONE OF THE THINGS I HOPE YOU'RE HEARING
IS HOW DESPERATELY IN NEED THESE GRANDPARENTS ARE
AND HOW OFTEN THEY'RE VERY, VERY ISOLATED.
JUST LIKE-- IT'S VERY, VERY SIMILAR TO OTHER TYPES OF FAMILY CAREGIVERS.
FAMILY CAREGIVERS SOMETIMES FEEL SO OVERBURDENED, SO OVERWHELMED,
THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START FOR HELP,
AND THEY OFTEN WON'T SEEK HELP, AND THEY TEND TO ISOLATE THEMSELVES,
AND IT BECOMES THIS DOWNWARD SPIRAL WHICH IS NOT A POSITIVE THING.
WE NEED THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY
AND IN THESE AGENCIES AND IN THESE SCHOOLS
TO HELP US IDENTIFY THESE FAMILIES
AND GET THEM TO THESE TYPES OF GROUPS,
BECAUSE THE BEST WAY, I THINK,
TO INTERVENE IN THE LIVES OF THESE GRANDPARENTS
IS PEER-TO-PEER,
AND THE WAY WE DO IT IS IN THESE GROUPS.
BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE CAN HAVE THE GREATEST INFLUENCE
AND WE CAN HELP THEM, I THINK, THE MOST.
SO, WE NEED YOUR HELP, AS COMMUNITY PARTNERS,
TO REFER TO THESE GROUPS.
SO, ONE OF THE HANDOUTS YOU RECEIVED TODAY
WAS ON A CHERRY-COLORED PAPER,
AND IT LISTS ALL OF THE FIVE COUNTIES REPRESENTED HERE TODAY
AND THESE INDIVIDUALS UP FRONT AS CONTACT PEOPLE.
SO, IF YOU HAVE ANYONE IN ANY OF THESE COUNTIES
WHO YOU SUSPECT IS A GRANDPARENT RAISING GRANDCHILDREN--
AND WE SOMETIMES USE THAT TERM LOOSELY.
NOT ALL THE GRANDPARENTS IN OUR GROUPS
NECESSARILY HAVE THE GRANDCHILDREN LIVING WITH THEM.
MANY GRANDPARENTS ARE ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN THE LIVES OF THEIR GRANDCHILDREN,
YOU KNOW, BUT THEIR GRANDCHILDREN DON'T NECESSARILY LIVE WITH THEM...
BUT THEY'RE INTERVENING IN MANY WAYS,
WHETHER IT'S THE LATCHKEY KID PIECE AFTER SCHOOL, BEFORE SCHOOL,
OR IF IT'S JUST THEY'RE HAVING TO HAVE AN ACTIVE PRESENCE IN THEIR LIFE
TO MAINTAIN SOME STABILITY IN THEIR GRANDCHILDREN'S LIVES.
SO, THESE GRANDPARENTS NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED
AND THEY NEED TO GET OUT TO US,
SO THAT WE CAN BRING THEM INTO THESE GROUPS.
BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY, IN OUR COMMUNITIES--
AND YOU'RE GONNA FIND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SERVICES IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.
THE MORE RURAL COMMUNITIES HAVE LESS TO OFFER.
HERE IN KENT COUNTY,
WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE SERVICE-RICH COUNTY.
BUT EVEN IN A SERVICE-RICH COUNTY, THESE SERVICES ARE COMPLEX.
AND MANY OF THE SERVICES,
ESPECIALLY THAT SERVE OUR GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH THESE ISSUES
AND SOMETIMES ALSO POVERTY ISSUES,
ARE DEHUMANIZING AND THEY'RE VERY DIFFICULT TO ACCESS
AND IT'S A VERY DEHUMANIZING PROCESS.
AND SO, THEY REALLY NEED THE SUPPORT OF THEIR PEERS
AND GROUPS LIKE THIS TO NOT ONLY DIRECT THEM,
BUT TO HOLD THEIR HAND AND HELP THEM THROUGH THE PROCESS.
UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NOT JUST AN AGENCY THAT YOU CAN CALL
THAT'S JUST FOR GRANDPARENTS, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.
SO, THIS IS THE BEST FRONT DOOR--
THESE GROUPS ARE THE BEST FRONT DOOR INTO THE SERVICES
AND SUPPORTS THAT GRANDPARENTS NEED TO DO THIS WORK.
SO, THAT'S WHY WE GAVE YOU THAT INFORMATION.
SO, SETTING THAT UP, MY QUESTION TO THE PANEL IS...
PANEL, YOU HAVE A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE.
UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S NOT MORE PEOPLE HERE TODAY.
THAT'S THE SAD NEWS.
SO, WE'RE GONNA DEPEND ON YOU TO GET THE WORD OUT
TO THOSE WHO AREN'T HERE.
BUT THOSE OF YOU WHO REPRESENT THESE SUPPORT GROUPS,
CAN YOU JUST THINK FOR A MOMENT
ABOUT WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO ASK OF OUR COMMUNITY?
WHAT IS IT THAT'S STILL NEEDED IN OUR COMMUNITIES
IN THE AGING SERVICE NETWORK OR IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS
TO BETTER ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF THE GRANDPARENTS IN YOUR GROUP?
KIND OF, IT'S YOUR WISH LIST.
WHAT WOULD IT BE THAT YOU'D HOPE COULD HAPPEN?
WHO WANTS TO START?
ANYONE PREPARED?
I KNOW IT'S A BIG QUESTION.
OKAY, JAN.
>> I THINK I HEAR, IN OUR SUPPORT GROUP, A LOT--
AND OF COURSE, THERE'S ALL THE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT BASIC NEEDS
THAT ALL OF US, AS GRANDPARENTS, HAVE.
YOU KNOW, THE ISOLATION,
THE NEED FOR SOMEBODY TO STEP IN AND SAY,
YOU KNOW, "I'LL TAKE THE KID FOR A COUPLE HOURS, FOR A DAY," WHATEVER.
ONE THING OUR CHILDREN ARE LACKING IS GRANDPARENTS...
BECAUSE THEIR GRANDPARENTS HAVE TO BE THE BOSS.
THEY CAN'T SPOIL THEM.
I HAVE FIVE OTHER GRANDCHILDREN, ALL LIVING CLOSE BY,
AND I CAN'T BE GRANDMA TO THEM
BECAUSE I'M ALSO RAISING ONE OF MY OWN,
AND I'M AS TIRED-- OR MORE TIRED AND MORE OVERWHELMED AS THEIR PARENTS ARE.
I HEAR "RESPITE" A LOT.
BUT THE OTHER THING I DO HEAR...
IS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES
BEFORE WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THESE CHILDREN. >> MMM-HMM.
>> THAT'S AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK UNDER MOST NORMAL DAYS.
I...
CAN'T TELL YOU THE LAST TIME I JUST WALKED OUT THAT DOOR
WITHOUT A BACKPACK, WITHOUT A CAR SEAT,
WITHOUT A CHILD OR ANYTHING ELSE.
I CAN'T TELL YOU WHEN I WENT TO THE STORE AND BOUGHT SOMETHING FOR ME,
EVEN IF IT WAS A CD.
OR THAT I ACTUALLY DIDN'T WAIT UNTIL MY HAIR WAS TO THE POINT
WHERE I COULDN'T LOOK AT IT ANYMORE BEFORE I WENT AND GOT IT CUT.
PHYSICALLY, YOU KNOW, GETTING TIME TO GET TO A DOCTOR,
BEING ABLE TO AFFORD THE MEDICATION OR THE THERAPY
THAT THOSE PHYSICIANS HAVE PRESCRIBED FOR US.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WOULD WRAP THIS UP INTO "RESPITE"
OR WHETHER YOU WOULD JUST WRAP IT UP INTO "SOMEBODY BE NICE TO ME FOR TODAY."
AND I THINK IF THE COMMUNITY WOULD STEP FORWARD
AND SAY, "HERE...
"YOU GRANDPARENTS REALLY PUT YOURSELVES OUT THERE.
"TAKE TODAY.
"YOU AND GRANDPA CAN HAVE DINNER TOGETHER,
"YOU CAN SEE A MOVIE, WHATEVER.
"WE WILL HANDLE THE CHILDREN.
"WE'LL GIVE YOU THAT DAY OF REST OR RESPITE OR PAMPERING
"OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU NEED."
BUT THAT'S A COMMUNITY SERVICE THAT WE CAN'T ASK FOR.
IT'S SO HARD.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY, "I JUST WANT SOMEBODY TO DO MY HAIR,"
OR "I JUST WANNA GO TO A MOVIE AND I CAN'T AFFORD IT."
IF THEY WOULD JUST STEP FORWARD AND SAY, "HERE, GUYS.
"GO TO THE MOVIE."
>> WHO'S NEXT?
>> I CAN SAY, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WITH OUR GRANDPARENTS GROUP, LEGAL IS--
THEY HAVE A LOT OF LEGAL QUESTIONS.
THEY'RE WONDERING FOSTER CARE, CUSTODY, YOU KNOW, ADOPTION--
WHAT'S BEST AND ALL THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, MAYBE, SOME OF OUR LAWYERS IN THE AREA,
SOME OF OUR, YOU KNOW, ATTORNEYS, MAYBE DONATING SOME TIME
OR SOME, YOU KNOW--
'CAUSE ADOPTIONS ARE EXPENSIVE, CUSTODY BATTLES ARE EXPENSIVE--
TO DONATE THAT KIND OF TIME TO-- AND THEY NEED THE ADVICE,
THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO DO.
THERE'S SO MANY STEPS AND, OH, IT'S JUST SO-- OH, YEAH.
WHAT YOU GO THROUGH IN THE MOUNTAINS OF PAPERWORK AND ALL THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT,
THAT MAYBE OUR ATTORNEYS WOULD STEP IN
AND SAY, "YOU KNOW WHAT?
"FOR YOU, I'M GONNA DO THIS.
"I WILL GIVE YOU $1,000 WORTH OF SERVICES.
"FROM THEN, YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY, BUT HERE, THIS FIRST $1,000, COVERED.
"LET'S GET GOING-- LET'S START."
>> THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.
>> EXCELLENT. >> ANYONE ELSE?
>> I'M JUST GONNA TOUCH BRIEFLY A LITTLE BIT ON EDUCATION.
THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS-- RECOGNIZE THAT EACH CHILD
DOES NOT COME FROM A HOME THAT HAS A MOTHER AND A FATHER,
THAT HAS GRANDPARENTS AT HOME.
DO YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE LITTLE,
HOW HARD IT IS FOR MOTHER'S DAY AND FATHER'S DAY
AND WHEN THEY HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL AND THEY DRAW THE PICTURE OF THAT FAMILY?
MY GRANDDAUGHTER DREW A PICTURE OF A MOTHER, A FATHER, TWO CHILDREN,
AND A CAT AND A DOG.
NOW, ISN'T THAT "THE" WONDERFUL FAMILY?
THAT WASN'T OUR FAMILY, BUT IT WAS SOMEBODY'S FAMILY.
BUT RECOGNIZE THIS.
RECOGNIZE THIS THAT THIS CHILD IS BEING RAISED BY OLDER PEOPLE
WHO ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK,
WHO DO NOT KNOW THE INTERNET THAT WELL,
WHO DO NOT WANT THEIR CHILD TO TAKE ONLINE CLASSES
BECAUSE THE CHILD HAS A LEARNING DISABILITY.
SPEAK TO US.
DON'T TRY TO EMAIL US ALL THE TIME OR TRY ALL THIS TECHNOLOGY,
BECAUSE SOME OF US--
I WORK WITH SOME PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.
THEY DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SMARTPHONE, AN IPAD.
THEY DON'T KNOW.
THEY DON'T KNOW FACEBOOK-- THEY DON'T KNOW THIS STUFF.
THINK ABOUT THE CHILD.
JUST THINK ABOUT THAT.
AFTER WORKING, YOU KNOW, I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH
BECAUSE I WAS AN ADVOCATE FOR MY GRANDDAUGHTER.
YOU KNOW, I-- I WAS THE ONE THAT WENT TO SCHOOL.
I WAS THE ONE THAT WENT TO THE CONFERENCES.
I WAS THE ONE THAT SAT DOWN TO THE TEACHER AND SAID,
YOU KNOW, "WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM."
YOU KNOW, IF EDUCATION-- IF TEACHERS WOULD RECOGNIZE THIS,
YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT HELP.
WHEN THEY GET OLDER, TOO.
YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM
AND IN THE COUNSELORS.
YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THEY'RE UNDERWORKED AND THEY'RE OVERPAID,
BUT THESE KIDS ARE OUR FUTURE.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO A NURSING HOME
AND HAVE SOMEONE TAKE CARE OF ME AND THEY CAN'T READ THE DIRECTIONS,
OR THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GIVE ME 50 MILLIGRAMS
AND THEY'RE GIVING MY 500, YOU KNOW?
I DON'T WANT THAT.
I WANT THEM TO BE EDUCATED WELL WHATEVER FIELD THEY WANT TO GO INTO.
YOU KNOW, THANK YOU.
>> (clearing throat)
I GUESS I WOULD HAVE TO SAY "DITTO" TO ALL OF THAT.
BUT I ALSO THINK...
ACCESS TO THE VARIOUS KINDS OF SERVICES
THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT GRANDPARENTS ARE IN NEED OF...
THINGS LIKE, UM...
WHEN THEY HAVE CHILDREN WHO HAVE SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS,
WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE GATEKEEPERS
AND JUMP THROUGH A LOT OF HOOPS TO GET THE KIND OF SERVICE THEY NEED
TO TAKE CARE OF THEM.
I THINK, TOO, THAT OUR POLITICIANS NEED TO BE MORE IN TUNE
WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN TERMS OF GRANDPARENTS.
THAT THEY SHOULD-- WELL, I HAD AN INTERESTING THING HAPPEN.
I'M ON THE FOSTER CARE REVIEW BOARD FOR KENT COUNTY,
AND WE HAD A LEGISLATOR'S DAY...
AND WE HAD ONE STATE LEGISLATOR WHO WALKED INTO THE MEETING
AND HE SAID, "WHAT IS FOSTER CARE?" (audience laughing)
NOW...
I WAS SOMEWHAT AMAZED...
AND I WONDER HOW MANY OF THEM ARE AWARE
THAT WE HAVE THE KIND OF PROBLEM WE HAVE
IN TERMS OF GRANDPARENTS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
IN TERMS OF THEM PUTTING FORTH SOME KIND OF PROGRAMS
TO HELP GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE IN NEED.
GRANDPARENTS ARE SAVING THIS STATE A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY...
BY KEEPING CHILDREN OUT OF FOSTER CARE.
AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME APPRECIATION
FOR THAT KIND OF SERVICE.
>> OKAY, I THINK THIS IS ALL GOOD.
NOW, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS LET'S DO SOME QUESTION AND ANSWER,
AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE A QUESTION.