Office Hours: Happy, Healthy Minds

>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A SPECIAL PRESENTATION OF THE BIG TEN NETWORK, PRODUCED IN ASSOCIATION WITH
THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN.
>> WE ALL KNOW THE BENEFITS OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITY. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF MENTAL EXERCISE?
PRACTITIONERS OF YOGA AND MEDITATION FEEL THE MIND AND BODY ARE CONNECTED. WE CAN TRAIN OUR BODIES
TO BECOME PHYSICALLY STRONGER, BUT CAN WE TRAIN OURSELVES TO BE HAPPIER? IS THE KEY TO HEALTH
CONCEALED WITHIN THE MIND? FIND OUT NEXT, DURING "OFFICE HOURS."
HI, I'M KEN GOLDSTEIN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON.
TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXCITING NEW RESEARCH ON MEDITATION AND HEALTHY MINDS. I'M JOINED BY
DR. RICHARD DAVIDSON, PROFESSOR PSYCHOLOGY AND PSYCHIATRY. HE'S ALSO DIRECTOR OF THE NEW CENTER FOR INVESTIGATING
HEALTHY MINDS. RICHIE IS THE RECIPIENT OF THE AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION'S DISTINGUISHED
SCIENTIFIC CONTRIBUTION AWARD, AND WAS NAMED ONE OF THE 100 MOST INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BY "TIME" MAGAZINE.
RICHIE, WELCOME TO "OFFICE HOURS." >> THANKS SO MUCH. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.
>> THANKS FOR COMING BY. A LOT OF ATTENTION HAS BEEN PAID TO YOUR WORK RECENTLY, AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE DALAI LAMA. YOUR INTEREST IN EASTERN MEDITATION LONG PRE-DATES THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH DALAI LAMA
AND YOUR PARTICULAR RESEARCH PROGRAM. TELL ME ABOUT THAT. >> THAT'S TRUE.
WHEN I WAS A GRADUATE STUDENT IN THE MID-1970s, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND TIME WITH PEOPLE WHOSE DEMEANOR
AND WHOSE PRESENCE WAS VERY INVITING, AND VERY INFECTIOUS IN LOTS OF WAYS. THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO I REALLY
FELT VERY GOOD ABOUT, AND WANTED TO BE AROUND THEM MORE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED ABOUT THEM IS THAT THEY HAD
IN COMMON AN INTEREST IN AND PRACTICE OF MEDITATION. AND AFTER MY SECOND YEAR OF GRADUATE SCHOOL, I ACTUALLY
WENT OFF TO INDIA TO THE CONSTERNATION OF SOME OF MY PROFESSORS AT THAT TIME, AND WANTED TO GET A TASTE
OF WHAT THIS WAS MYSELF IN A VERY DIRECT WAY. AND THAT WAS THE TIME THAT I DID MY FIRST INTENSIVE
MEDITATION RETREAT, AND HAD SOME INSIDE FAMILIARITY WITH WHAT THESE PRACTICES WERE LIKE.
AND I CAME BACK WITH TREMENDOUS ENTHUSIASM, CONVINCED THAT THIS WAS REALLY SOMETHING THAT WAS IMPORTANT FOR WESTERN SCIENCE
TO KNOW MORE ABOUT, AND WITH THE FERVENT DESIRE TO BEGIN SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ON THE IMPACT
OF THESE KINDS OF PRACTICES. >> I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THIS INTENSIVE MEDITATION ENTAILS.
MAYBE IT'S INSIDE ACADEMIC POLITICS. SO, YOU COME BACK TO GRADUATE SCHOOL AND YOUR ADVISORS
WHO WEREN'T HAPPY THAT YOU WENT TO INDIA, AND THEN YOU COME BACK AND TELL THEM THAT YOU NOW WANT
TO SYSTEMATICALLY STUDY THAT. ENCOURAGED, DISCOURAGED? >> THEY SAID, RICHIE, THIS IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO BEGIN
A SUCCESSFUL SCIENTIFIC CAREER. THAT WAS THE PREDOMINANT RESPONSE THAT I RECEIVED. >> IN SOME WAYS,
THERE'S A LESSON HERE. DO WHAT YOU LIKE, DO WHAT YOU LOVE, AND FOLLOW THE PATH.
WHEN YOU SAID YOU WENT OUT AND DID AN INTENSIVE MEDITATION RETREAT, BECAUSE PEOPLE YOU HAD MET, YOU LIKED THEIR MANNER,
YOU LIKED THEIR INFECTIOUSNESS. WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL? >> THE INTENSIVE MEDITATION RETREAT?
WELL, THIS WAS A RETREAT WHERE I WAS SILENT FOR A PERIOD OF TWO WEEKS, AND I WAS PRACTICING FOR SOMEWHERE AROUND
BETWEEN 12 AND 16 HOURS A DAY, AND IN COMPLETE SILENCE WITH NO EYE CONTACT. SO IT'S QUITE RIGOROUS,
INTENSIVE IMMERSION. MEDITATION BOOT CAMP. >> MEDITATION BOOT CAMP. THAT'S A FUNNY COMBINATION
OF WORDS. IN YOUR INITIAL ACADEMIC WORK, YOU START DOING THIS. OR DID YOU DO OTHER THINGS
AND THEN COME BACK TO THIS AT ANOTHER TIME? >> I ACTUALLY DABBLED IN IT AT THE VERY EARLY STAGE
OF MY SCIENTIFIC CAREER AND PUBLISHED A FEW ARTICLES IN THE LATE 1970s AND EARLY 1980s ON THIS.
BUT IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT THIS WAS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO BE DOING IT, FOR BOTH KIND OF POLITICAL
AND SOCIOLOGICAL REASONS WITHIN THE DISCIPLINE ITSELF. BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, BECAUSE THE METHODS THAT WERE
AVAILABLE TO US AT THAT TIME WERE FAIRLY COARSE AND CRUDE. I WAS CONVINCED THAT THE MOST INTERESTING COMPONENTS OF THESE
KINDS OF TRAINING METHODS WERE NOT BEING SUFFICIENTLY WELL CAPTURED BY THE METHODS THAT WE HAD AVAILABLE.
AND SO, I PURSUED A CAREER ON THE BRAIN AND EMOTION, WHICH I'M STILL VERY PASSIONATELY COMMITTED TO TODAY, WHERE
WE STUDY BOTH NORMAL EMOTION REGULATION, AS WELL AS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE CAPACITY
TO REGULATE EMOTION, AND WHAT DISORDERS MAY RESULT FROM THAT. >> SO, THE REASON YOU DIDN'T STUDY IT WAS NOT ONLY THAT
IT WAS NOT A STRATEGIC REASON NOT TO STUDY SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR, BUT YOU NEEDED THE PERFECT STORM, IF YOU WILL,
OF THE SCIENTIFIC TOOLS TO BE ABLE TO EXECUTE A RESEARCH DESIGN THAT YOU WOULD BE CONVINCED WAS VALID.
WHAT WERE THOSE SCIENTIFIC TOOLS THAT BECAME AVAILABLE? >> WELL, ONE OF THE MAJOR TOOLS WAS BRAIN IMAGING.
AT THE TIME THAT I BEGAN MY SCIENTIFIC CAREER, BRAIN IMAGING DIDN'T EXIST, AND ACTUALLY NEUROSCIENCE
IN THE WAY WE NOW UNDERSTAND IT DID NOT EXIST. THERE WERE ENORMOUS DEVELOPMENTS IN BOTH THE METHODOLOGY
AND TECHNOLOGY, AND ALSO IN THE CONCEPTUAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BRAIN, THAT PROVIDED THE FOUNDATION
FOR WHAT WE'RE NOW DOING. >> WHEN WE COME BACK, I WANT TO HEAR A LITTLE MORE ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO
WHEN YOU DO THE BRAIN IMAGING. RICHIE DAVIDSON FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHOLOGY AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHIATRY
HERE AT UW-MADISON, JOINING US ON "OFFICE HOURS." PLEASE STAY WITH US.
>> THIS PROGRAM IS A PRODUCTION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON. IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS
ABOUT THIS BROADCAST, PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO: PROGRAMMING@UC.WISC.EDU
>> WHERE OTHERS SAW LUMBER, WE RECOGNIZED A TREASURE. WHERE OTHERS SAW THE NIGHT, WE CHOSE THE STARS.
WHERE OTHERS SAW PIECES, WE UNLOCKED THE PUZZLE THAT COULD MEAN THE END TO PARALYSIS AND CANCER.
SINCE 1848, THINKERS AND ACHIEVERS AT WISCONSIN HAVE FEARLESSLY SOUGHT IDEAS THAT TRANSFORMED THE WORLD.
KEEP ON, WISCONSIN, KEEP ON.
>> WELCOME BACK TO "OFFICE HOURS." WE'RE HERE WITH RICHIE DAVIDSON FROM THE DEPARTMENT
OF PSYCHOLOGY. RICHIE, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BRAIN IMAGING BEFORE, AND THAT GAVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY
TO STUDY SCIENTIFICALLY THESE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN OF INTEREST FOR QUITE SOME TIME IN YOUR LIFE.
SO, BRAIN IMAGING, YOU GET THE IMAGES OF PEOPLE WITH ELECTRODES OR SOMETHING CONNECTED TO THEIR HEAD.
EXACTLY WHAT ARE YOU DOING AND WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE BRAIN IMAGING? >> THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS
OF BRAIN IMAGING. THE MAJOR WORK HORSE IN OUR LABORATORY AND MOST LABORATORIES
DOING HUMAN BRAIN IMAGING IS THE MRI SCANNER. IT STANDS FOR MAGNETIC RESONANCE IMAGING.
THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE IONIZING RADIATION, SO THERE'S NO EXPOSURE TO X-RAYS.
IT'S VERY SAFE, SO THAT WE CAN DO IT WITH KIDS. WE CAN DO IT WITH ADULTS. AND WE CAN DO IT REPEATEDLY
OVER TIME. WE'RE USING THE MRI IN A VERY SPECIAL WAY TO LOOK AT BRAIN FUNCTION, PRIMARILY,
RATHER THAN BRAIN STRUCTURE. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE BRAIN AT WORK. AND WHAT WE'RE MEASURING
IS A MEASURE THAT IS SENSITIVE TO THE BLOOD FLOW IN THE BRAIN. WHEN A PARTICULAR AREA OF THE BRAIN BECOMES MORE ACTIVATED,
THERE IS MORE BLOOD THAT ACTUALLY FLOWS TO THAT AREA. AND USING MRI, WE CAN ACTUALLY DETECT THESE VERY LOCAL CHANGES
IN BLOOD FLOW THAT ACCOMPANY MENTAL ACTIVITY. AND IT REALLY IS QUITE AN ASTOUNDING METHOD.
WHEN I WAS A GRADUATE STUDENT, I ACTUALLY HAD DREAMS OF A METHOD LIKE THIS. WE THOUGHT IT WAS
SCIENCE FICTION AT THE TIME. AND IN ABOUT 1996, IS WHEN IT BECAME A REALITY, WAY AFTER I RECEIVED MY PhD,
BUT THIS HAS REALLY ALLOWED US TO PEER INTO THE BLACK BOX. >> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AN MRI, IS THAT THE MRI THEY
WHEELED ME INTO FOR MY BUM KNEE, THAT SAME THING THAT MANY OF OUR VIEWERS MAY HAVE HAD MRIs FOR VARIOUS THINGS?
>> YES, IT'S THAT MRI. WE USE A HIGH FIELD STRENGTH MRI, MEANING THAT IT HAS BETTER RESOLUTION THAN THE TYPICAL
CLINICAL MRI, BUT IT LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE A STANDARD CLINICAL MRI. >> I READ ONE OF
THE FIRST STUDIES. IT WAS A TIBETAN MONK, WHO I BELIEVE WAS FRENCH, WHO CAME HERE.
SO, YOU THREW HIM IN THE MRI, YOU STUCK HIM IN THE MRI, AND YOU WENT IN THE BACK ROOM, YOU WERE SORT OF AMAZED
BY WHAT LIT UP. TELL ME ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE, AND WHY WAS IT SIGNIFICANT WHAT YOU SAW LIGHT UP THERE.
>> WELL, I'D BE HAPPY TO, THEN I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR FRENCH MONK. THE FIRST STUDY THAT WE DID
WITH THE LONG-TERM MEDITATION PRACTITIONERS WAS DONE WITH ANOTHER BRAIN IMAGING TECHNIQUE, WHERE WE HAVE ELECTRODES
THAT WE PLACE ON THE HEAD USING A CAP OR A NET, AND WE PUT MANY ELECTRODES ON THE HEAD, 256.
THEY MEASURE THE MINUTE BRAIN ELECTRICAL SIGNALS THAT EACH OF OUR BRAINS GENERATES ALL THE TIME.
AND WE OBSERVED, WHEN THE MEDITATORS BEGAN TO MEDITATE, AND THEY WERE DOING PARTICULAR MEDITATION
TO GENERATE COMPASSION, WE OBSERVED A CHANGE IN THE BRAIN THAT WAS VISUALLY DETECTABLE. USUALLY, YOU HAVE TO USE
VERY SOPHISTICATED COMPUTER TECHNIQUES TO EXTRACT THESE SIGNALS. AND WE WERE SITTING THERE
AND ACTUALLY SAW THE CHANGE WITH OUR NAKED EYE. THIS IS SOMETHING VERY, VERY UNUSUAL.
>> WHERE DID YOU SEE THAT CHANGE IN THE NAKED EYE? WHAT EXACTLY, IF THE TERM IS LIGHT UP,
WHAT LIT UP? >> THERE WERE AREAS IN THE PRE-FRONTAL CORTEX THAT LIT UP, AND THEY LIT UP
IN A VERY PARTICULAR WAY. THERE WAS THE PRESENCE OF GAMMA OSCILLATIONS. THESE ARE OSCILLATIONS
THAT ARE VERY FAST IN FREQUENCY. THEY OCCUR ABOUT 40 TIMES A SECOND. THEY WERE VERY LARGE AMPLITUDE.
AND THEY'RE ASSOCIATED WITH FOCUSED ATTENTION, AND WITH CERTAIN TYPES OF LEARNING AND MEMORY.
AND IN THE NORMAL BRAIN, THEY ARE OBSERVED TYPICALLY FOR PERIODS ON THE ORDER OF ONE OR TWO SECONDS.
WE OBSERVED THEM FOR MINUTES, AND EVEN HOURS, IN THESE LONG-TERM PRACTITIONERS, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY
HAS NEVER BEEN REPORTED BEFORE IN THE HUMAN BRAIN. WE PUBLISHED THIS WORK IN A JOURNAL CALLED
"THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES," WHICH IS A VERY PRESTIGIOUS SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL, AND IT'S THE FIRST TIME
THAT A PAPER ON MEDITATION HAS EVER BEEN PUBLISHED IN THAT JOURNAL. AND THAT REALLY HELPED
TO OPEN UP THIS WHOLE FIELD. >> I WANT TO CONTINUE MORE ON THAT, AND THEN HEAR THE STORY OF HOW THIS FRENCH MONK
ENDED UP COMING TO MADISON TO DO THIS VERY IMPORTANT STUDY. STAY WITH US. YOU STAY WITH US, PLEASE,
ON "OFFICE HOURS."
>> GREAT PEOPLE IS OUR CAMPAIGN FOR NEED-BASED SCHOLARSHIP AID. IT'S THE KEY TO THE LONG-TERM WELL-BEING OF THE UNIVERSITY
AS A WHOLE. >> IN 1970, TUITION COST ABOUT $500. >> TODAY, IT'S ABOUT $9,000.
>> WE DON'T WANT UW-MADISON TO BE A UNIVERSITY THAT IS DEEMED TO BE OUT OF REACH. >> THE GREAT PEOPLE SCHOLARSHIP
GIVES STUDENTS A CHANCE TO SUCCEED IN LIFE. >> SUPPORT THE GREAT PEOPLE SCHOLARSHIP.
VISIT: UWGREATPEOPLE.ORG
>> WELCOME BACK TO "OFFICE HOURS." I'M HERE WITH DR. RICHARD DAVIDSON FROM
THE DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHOLOGY AT UW-MADISON. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIS PATH-BREAKING WORK
ON THE EFFECTS OF MEDITATION. SO, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS FRENCH MONK-- >> MATIEU RICARD.
>> AND HOW HE ENDED UP COMING HERE AND BEING SOMEONE WHO YOU COULD STUDY. HOW DID HE END UP COMING HERE?
AND TELL ME ABOUT YOUR MEETING WITH THE DALAI LAMA. >> WELL, MATIEU IS A VERY UNUSUAL MONK.
HE'S BEEN A TIBETAN BUDDHIST MONK SINCE 1967. OBVIOUSLY, FRENCH BY NATIONALITY.
WHAT MAKES HIM SO UNUSUAL IS HE ALSO HOLDS A PhD IN MOLECULAR BIOLOGY FROM THE PASTEUR INSTITUTE,
WHERE HE WORKED WITH A NOBEL LAUREATE. SO, HE COMES WITH REMARKABLE CREDENTIALS.
HE'S SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO BRIDGE THIS KIND OF CULTURAL DIVIDE IN A WAY THAT IS UNLIKE ANY OTHER PERSON.
AND MATIEU IS DEEPLY CURIOUS ABOUT SCIENCE. HE THOUGHT THAT WHEN HE BECAME A BUDDHIST MONK, HE WAS LEAVING
SCIENCE BEHIND COMPLETELY, AND HIS CAREER HAS KIND OF COME FULL CIRCLE. THE DALAI LAMA LOVES TO REFER
TO HIM AS HIS BEST GUINEA PIG. MATIEU HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN TWEAKING OUR PARADIGMS, AND HELPING TO DESIGN TASKS
THAT ARE APPROPRIATE TO CAPTURE WHAT'S GOING ON. >> TELL ME ABOUT YOUR MEETING WITH THE DALAI LAMA.
BECAUSE HE ALSO HAD AN INTEREST IN SCIENCE, AND PROVING SOME OF THIS. >> HE DID.
HE INVITED ME TO MEET WITH HIM INITIALLY IN 1992. THAT WAS WHEN I FIRST MET WITH HIM.
HE INVITED ME TO COME TO HIS HOUSE IN INDIA. >> SO YOU'RE SITTING AT HOME IN MADISON AND THE PHONE RINGS,
OR YOU GET A LETTER WHICH SAYS COME TO INDIA AND MEET ME. >> I ACTUALLY GOT A FAX. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS MORE FAXES
THAT WERE USED IN THOSE DAYS. AND YES, I FIRST THOUGHT IT WAS A JOKE, BUT WHEN I CONFIRMED IT WAS REAL,
OFF I WENT TO INDIA. AND SO, I MET WITH HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME THEN. IT WAS A VERY PROFOUND MEETING
THAT VERY SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED THE COURSE OF MY CAREER, AND CHANGED THE COURSE OF MY LIFE. HE CHALLENGED ME AND SAID,
LOOK, YOU GUYS ARE USING VERY SOPHISTICATED NEUROSCIENTIFIC METHODS TO STUDY FEAR, AND ANXIETY, AND DEPRESSION.
WHY CAN'T YOU USE THOSE SAME METHODS TO STUDY KINDNESS AND COMPASSION? AND THERE WAS NO GOOD ANSWER,
OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT WAS HARD. BUT IT WAS HARD WHEN WE FIRST BEGAN WITH EMOTIONS
LIKE FEAR AND ANXIETY. AND SO I MADE A COMMITMENT TO THE DALAI LAMA ON THAT DAY IN 1992, THAT I WAS
GOING TO DO EVERYTHING I COULD TO PUT COMPASSION ON THE SCIENTIFIC MAP. AND IF YOU LOOK IN TEXTBOOKS
OF PSYCHOLOGY IN THE 1990s, COMPASSION WAS NOT IN THE INDEX OF ANY OF THEM, AND THAT IS BEGINNING TO CHANGE.
>> AND HOW DO YOU SHOW THAT? YOU COME BACK FROM INDIA, AND YOU DID THIS STUDY WITH THE MATIEU RICARD.
DID I GET IT RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND THEN YOU EMBARK ON A SERIES OF OTHER DESIGNS.
WHAT WERE THESE STUDIES AND WHAT DID THEY SHOW? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THEY SHOWED THAT THESE LONG-TERM
PRACTITIONERS WHO SPENT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF HOURS, THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF HOURS AMONG THE PRACTITIONERS
WE'VE TESTED, THE LONG-TERM PRACTITIONERS, IS 34,000 LIFETIME HOURS. IT'S A BIG NUMBER.
THEIR BRAINS ARE DIFFERENT. THEIR BRAINS ARE DIFFERENT, BOTH AT BASELINE, AND THEIR BRAINS GET EVEN MORE DIFFERENT
WHEN THEY ENGAGE IN MEDITATION PRACTICES THAT ARE EXPLICITLY DESIGNED TO CULTIVATE COMPASSION.
>> LET ME INTERRUPT YOU THERE. THAT'S A BIG DEAL. PEOPLE IN PSYCHOLOGY AND OTHER MEDICAL SCIENCE
SAY THE BRAIN CAN CHANGE, BUT WE MOSTLY ASSUME THAT'S DUE TO A PHYSICAL TRAUMA OR AN EMOTIONALLY BAD HOUSEHOLD.
THIS IS SAYING YOU CAN ACTUALLY CHANGE YOUR BRAIN BY MEDITATION, NOT YOUR ENVIRONMENT, OR A BAD PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT.
>> CORRECT, JUST PURELY INTERNALLY. SO, USING YOUR OWN MIND, YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR BRAIN.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE FEEL IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO IS LIVING AND BREATHING HAS A MIND,
AND THEY CAN USE IT TO CHANGE THEIR BRAIN. >> THERE REALLY IS THAT EXERCISE ANALOGY OF A MUSCLE.
>> COMPLETELY. IT'S A VERY APPROPRIATE ANALOGY. IT REALLY IS NOT FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT IF WE MENTALLY
EXERCISE AND REHEARSE CERTAIN KINDS OF QUALITIES, WE CAN ENHANCE THOSE QUALITIES. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LIMITS
OF PLASTICITY ARE, BUT THERE'S CERTAINLY CHANGE THAT IS POSSIBLE. SO THE IDEA THAT CHARACTERISTICS
LIKE HAPPINESS AND COMPASSION CAN BE EXTENDED AND ENHANCED, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT OUR FINDINGS CERTAINLY SUPPORT.
>> LET'S TAKE A BREAK NOW. AND WHEN WE COME BACK, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT HAPPINESS. IF HAPPINESS AND COMPASSION
CAN BE IMPROVED LIKE ONE'S ABILITY TO RUN, DO YOU HAVE TO SPEND 35,000 HOURS MEDITATING
TO DO IT? TO FIND OUT THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, PLEASE, STAY WITH US ON "OFFICE HOURS."
>> THIS PROGRAM IS A PRODUCTION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON. IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS
ABOUT THIS BROADCAST, PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO: PROGRAMMING@UC.WISC.EDU
>> WELCOME BACK TO "OFFICE HOURS." WE'RE HERE WITH RICHIE DAVIDSON, FROM THE DEPARTMENT
OF PSYCHOLOGY, TALKING ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF MEDITATION AND THE SCIENCE OF COMPASSION. SO, 35,000 HOURS MEDITATING.
I HAVEN'T DONE THE MATH OF HOW MANY DAYS, MONTHS AND YEARS THAT IS, CAN CHANGE SOMEONE'S MIND.
CAN WE DO A LITTLE LESS THAN THAT, AND GET THAT AS WELL? >> THIS WAS A QUESTION THAT WE WERE CONSTANTLY BEING ASKED,
AND SO WE DECIDED WE NEEDED TO INVESTIGATE IT SCIENTIFICALLY. AND SO, WE'VE RECENTLY COMPLETED A STUDY WHERE WE TOOK
INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE INTERESTED IN LEARNING MEDITATION, BUT WHO HAVE NEVER MEDITATED BEFORE.
AND THEY WERE RANDOMLY ASSIGNED TO A MEDITATION GROUP OR A GROUP THAT RECEIVED TRAINING IN COGNITIVE RE-APPRAISAL,
WHICH IS DERIVED FROM COGNITIVE THERAPY, WHICH IS AN EMPIRICALLY VALIDATED TREATMENT TO PROMOTE WELL-BEING
AND TO RELIEVE DEPRESSION. WE LOOKED AT TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING, 30 MINUTES A DAY. SO THESE INDIVIDUALS
WERE GIVEN TRAINING, ACTUALLY OVER THE INTERNET. THEY LOGGED ON WHENEVER THEY COULD, FOR A 30-MINUTE
PERIOD ONCE A DAY, FOR 14 CONSECUTIVE DAYS. AND WE DID BRAIN SCANS, NEURO-IMAGING BEFORE AND AFTER
THE TWO-WEEK PERIOD. WE ALSO HAD VARIOUS KINDS OF BEHAVIORAL MEASURES TO ASSESS THE IMPACT OF THIS KIND
OF TRAINING ON MEASURES OF ALTRUISM AND COMPASSION. WE FOUND THAT JUST TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING ACTUALLY PRODUCES
RELIABLE DIFFERENCES IN THE BRAIN THAT WERE CLEARLY MEASURABLE USING OUR MRI PROCEDURES.
AND WE FOUND THAT PARTICIPANTS ACTUALLY ENGAGED IN MORE ALTRUISTIC AND COMPASSIONATE BEHAVIOR AS A CONSEQUENCE
OF THE TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING. THESE FINDINGS CLEARLY INDICATE THAT EVEN SHORT AMOUNTS OF TRAINING CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
NOW, WHETHER THAT LASTS OR NOT, IS SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT IN TIME. MY OWN CONJECTURE IS THAT IT'S
LIKELY TO LAST IF THESE PEOPLE CONTINUE TO PRACTICE. BUT JUST AS WITH PHYSICAL EXERCISE, NO ONE WOULD EVER
IMAGINE THAT TWO WEEKS OF PHYSICAL EXERCISE WOULD ENABLE A PERSON TO CONTINUE TO ENJOY THOSE BENEFITS
IF HE OR SHE DID NOT CONTINUE TO EXERCISE. >> LIKE ANY MAJOR ACADEMIC WORK, THERE ARE PEOPLE
WHO TRY TO REPLICATE IT, AND PEOPLE WHO TRY TO CRITIQUE IT. WHAT HAVE BEEN THE MAJOR CRITIQUES OF YOUR WORK?
>> ONE OF THE BEST CRITIQUES WAS WHEN THE DALAI LAMA WAS INVITED TO SPEAK AT THE SOCIETY FOR NEUROSCIENCE IN 2005.
THERE WAS AN ARTICLE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT IT. I WAS SINGLED OUT
IN THAT ARTICLE. THERE WAS SOMEONE INTERVIEWED, AND THEY WERE CRITICAL OF MY WORK, BECAUSE THEY SAID,
"DAVIDSON CAN'T POSSIBLY BE OBJECTIVE ABOUT THIS, SINCE HE'S ADMITTED IN PUBLIC THAT HE HIMSELF MEDITATES."
AND, OF COURSE, I LOVE THAT CRITICISM, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE LIKE TELLING A CARDIOLOGIST WHO STUDIES THE EFFECTS
OF PHYSICAL EXERCISE ON CARDIOVASCULAR FUNCTION THAT HE CAN'T DO ANY PHYSICAL EXERCISE
FOR HIS ENTIRE PROFESSIONAL CAREER. SCIENCE IS SET UP IN WAYS THAT HOPEFULLY ONE HAS
THE APPROPRIATE CHECKS AND BALANCES TO ENABLE THESE KINDS OF QUESTIONS TO BE INVESTIGATED OBJECTIVELY
AND HONESTLY. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN TRYING TO DO. WE'VE PUBLISHED FINDINGS
THAT ARE NON-FINDINGS. THAT IS, FAILURES TO FIND DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEDITATORS AND CONTROLS.
SO, IT'S NOT A PANACEA. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR EVERYTHING. BUT I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THIS WORK IN A RIGOROUS WAY.
>> WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT. FOLLOW UP ON THAT. TELL ME WHAT SOME OF THE APPLICATIONS FOR THIS ARE
THAT YOU THINK THERE MAY BE, AND THAT YOU'RE TESTING NOW? >> ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING IS A PROJECT WE'RE DOING NOW
IN THE MADISON PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM WITH FIFTH GRADE KIDS. WE THINK SOME OF THESE METHODS CAN BE USED WITH CHILDREN
TO TRAIN THEM TO BETTER REGULATE THEIR ATTENTION, AND BETTER REGULATE THEIR EMOTION IN WAYS THAT WILL MAKE A
DIFFERENCE, NOT JUST FOR THEIR SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL BEHAVIOR, BUT ALSO FOR THEIR ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE.
>> RICHIE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY ON "OFFICE HOURS." >> MY PLEASURE.
>> VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT. I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK AND JOIN US AGAIN SOME TIME DOWN THE LINE.
>> BE MY PLEASURE. THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. >> THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
DON'T FORGET "OFFICE HOURS" IS ON THE WEB VIA OUR UNIVERSITY WEBSITE, FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. TAKE A LOOK AT LET US KNOW
YOUR THOUGHTS. FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON, THIS HAS BEEN "OFFICE HOURS."
THANKS FOR STOPPING BY.
>> THE PRECEDING PROGRAM WAS PRODUCED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE BIG TEN NETWORK.