20111012 Interview With Jesus & Mary - Introduction To Jesus & Mary S1

Geoff: Okay. First of all,
Geoff: the reason for this interview in a nutshell
Geoff: is that AJ, you believe that you are Jesus,
Geoff: and Mary, you believe that you are Mary Magdalene.
Geoff: And you've both admitted to a lot of people
Geoff: that when hearing this
Geoff: they would probably think you're just clearly deluded.
Geoff: So can you please explain how you arrived at this understanding?
Jesus: Well Jeff, firstly, we don't believe we were Mary Magdalene or Jesus,
Jesus: but we believe we are.
Jesus: And I suppose that is the beginning of the first
Jesus: set of circumstances we need to explain.
Jesus: And that is, we believe that people have one life,
Jesus: not many lives.
Jesus: And, and so therefore when your born first on Earth
Jesus: usually your parents name you,
Jesus: and in my case in the first century my parents named me Yeshua.
Jesus: And, and then you grow
Jesus: and certain things happen to you in your life.
Jesus: So in my life I grew
Jesus: and certain things happened in my earth-based life.
Jesus: And then I, I died as, as many do.
Jesus: I didn't die the same way that a lot of people die, but I died.
Jesus: And then I passed into the spirit world
Jesus: and I was still the same person.
Jesus: And then I progressed through the spirit world
Jesus: still as the same person,
Jesus: but just developing and growing
Jesus: just like any person does.
Jesus: And, and then we got to a point
Jesus: where both Mary and myself
Jesus: started recognizing that we were one soul
Jesus: and not two separate individual souls.
Jesus: And that's something that we recognized
Jesus: before we passed from the earth in the first century, but.
Jesus: And then Mary was born in the first century in the same manner.
Jesus: And she had a life in the first century.
Jesus: And she died
Jesus: and then she arrived in the spirit world
Jesus: and she continued to progress just the same.
Jesus: And we progressed together
Jesus: recognizing that we were part of the same soul,
Jesus: which we call soulmates I suppose,
Jesus: but the reality is we're one soul in two bodies, if you like.
Jesus: And then we recognized after that development continued
Jesus: that we had an opportunity to return to the planet
Jesus: if we were willing to take on a different set of bodies,
Jesus: we had an opportunity to return to the planet.
Jesus: And so when we returned,
Jesus: it was just the same process.
Jesus: The same person Jesus and Mary
Jesus: splitting into the two separate bodies if you like again
Jesus: and then, and then developing on earth again.
Jesus: But, but we're still the same person,
Jesus: it's all one life as a memory of that entire life.
Geoff: And you've always had this memory
Geoff: even as a very young child in this life?
Jesus: No, because you've got to understand
Jesus: how memories are created
Jesus: for every single person who's ever lived.
Jesus: We are selective about our memories
Jesus: based on our emotional condition associated with the memories.
Jesus: So usually what you find happening on the earth today
Jesus: is that when memories are associated with trauma,
Jesus: then generally they're quite heavily suppressed.
Jesus: And sometimes when memories are associated
Jesus: with beautiful things that you've lost,
Jesus: you often suppress the memories of those things as well.
Jesus: And then in addition,
Jesus: our day-to-day life sometimes isn't very eventful
Jesus: and so even yesterday I doubt many would,
Jesus: many of us could actually recall in detail
Jesus: what actually happened to us yesterday
Jesus: unless there were some significant events that we could recall.
Jesus: And so with regard to memory
Jesus: what happens is there has to be
Jesus: some emotional allowance of the memory occurring.
Geoff: And how old were you when this first occurred?
Jesus: Well for me I had some memories occur
Jesus: when I was around two years of age in this life,
Jesus: but I didn't have an emotional allowance of what it meant.
Jesus: So I had memories of somebody driving nails through my feet,
Jesus: but I didn't have any emotional way of joining that together
Jesus: and realizing what it was,
Jesus: given the brain of a two year old
Jesus: is not probably capable of working out those particular things.
Jesus: And so that, that was the beginning of some of my memories.
Jesus: For Mary I think hers were more around when she was fourteen or fifteen.
Mary: Yeah, fourteen or fifteen I think.
Mary: I had, I had a specific event
Mary: where I remembered being murdered
Mary: and I remembered also being on the run for my life.
Mary: And it was quite a big emotional memory, experience
Mary: and I also didn't have any context to put that in.
Geoff: Did this come out in your conscious mind or in a dream or?
Mary: No, it was, I was at a workshop,
Mary: sort of like a personal development workshop.
Mary: And really spontaneously a piece of music was played
Mary: and I began to feel incredibly sad for no apparent reason.
Mary: And I began to sob
Mary: and suddenly the details of these traumatic events were upon me.
Mary: And I spoke about them with the group I was with
Mary: and they said
Mary: 'Well it's a past life memory,
Mary: and it's okay, you just need to get on with things'.
Mary: And I didn't actually have a belief in reincarnation at the time.
Mary: And so I didn't put much stock in that.
Mary: And I just tried to get on with my day.
Mary: We moved onto doing other activities.
Mary: But for me the grief just kept coming
Mary: and coming and coming and coming for a good six hours.
Mary: And beyond that,
Mary: I just kind of filed it in the
Mary: 'I don't understand category of my life'.
Geoff: Until when?
Mary: Until I met AJ, probably.
Geoff: Ok.
Mary: Although not immediately after I met AJ.
Mary: Because when I met AJ, I was fairly skeptical,
Mary: I think is probably the correct term.
Mary: I was very,
Mary: I resonated incredibly with what he was speaking about.
Mary: In fact it was bizarre because I felt
Mary: almost as if I understood what he was talking about before he explained it.
Mary: And we had many conversations in the beginning of our relationship
Mary: where we'd be discussing an issue
Mary: and I'd sort of be saying
Mary: 'Oh, yeah, isn't all this obvious,
Mary: like doesn't everyone see this'?
Mary: And he would point out
Mary: and there was a lot of evidence to the fact that
Mary: 'No, not everyone does believe or see this'.
Mary: So when I met AJ, I was really attracted to what he was talking about,
Mary: but I wished he'd stop telling people he was Jesus.
Mary: Because I felt that really damaged the impact,
Mary: the believability if you like
Mary: and how open people were to responding to it.
Jesus: You really had the approach, didn't you,
Jesus: that, that if you could convince me to that I wasn't Jesus
Jesus: then everything would be fine then.
Mary: Yeah, it was a fairly arrogant approach, actually.
Mary: Didn't really put a lot of stock in how much you'd actually gone through
Mary: to get to a point to be able to say it to people.
Geoff: So AJ, how did your mother react when you came out so to speak?
Jesus: Yeah, probably would have been sort of four or five months after I.
Jesus: What, what happened, I obviously had a series, you know,
Jesus: so now we're jumping ahead nearly,
Jesus: from two years of age to thirty-eight,
Jesus: to nearly forty years of age.
Jesus: So, so now there's a fare bit of life in that little gap
Jesus: where a lot of different things occurred, you know,
Jesus: that were memories again that, that I,
Jesus: that I couldn't accept and I couldn't explain.
Jesus: And so what I did was very similar to what Mary did when she was fifteen.
Jesus: And that is just slot it in the background
Jesus: and say that 'I don't know anything about that'.
Jesus: I didn't believe in reincarnation the way it was portrayed by,
Jesus: you know, people on the planet today.
Jesus: And so, and I felt quite strongly
Jesus: that the teaching of reincarnation had a lot of unloving basis to it,
Jesus: therefore could not be truth.
Jesus: And so I just slotted, like Mary did,
Jesus: a lot of the events in the background
Jesus: and just sort of left it for another day to resolve, basically.
Jesus: And it wasn't until I was around nearly forty
Jesus: that I started having a lot stronger memories
Jesus: and recollections of events
Jesus: throughout my life in the first century
Jesus: and in the spirit world and in this life.
Jesus: And, and I started to actually take them a bit more seriously
Jesus: and start documenting them.
Jesus: And, and not only documenting them
Jesus: but processing them, through them emotionally,
Jesus: like accepting them emotionally.
Jesus: And, and after about sort of, that,
Jesus: that process began in earnest around 2003/2004.
Jesus: And, and after about five months of it,
Jesus: I was fairly convinced that I knew who I was.
Jesus: In fact, it wasn't the memories that convinced me,
Jesus: it was just, it wasn't like there was a necessary for-conviction even,
Jesus: it was just this is who I am sort of feeling.
Jesus: It's a bit like you coming to terms with the fact,
Jesus: let's say that you,
Jesus: and this would probably be a poor example,
Jesus: but let's say that you had some kind of inheritance
Jesus: that you weren't aware of.
Jesus: And then someone came along and told you that actually,
Jesus: you know, the parents you have now they were actually,
Jesus: they're actually your foster parents
Jesus: and your real parents were such and such.
Jesus: And those two parents would like to meet you
Jesus: and get to know you and so forth.
Jesus: You'd probably go through, you know,
Jesus: a fair bit of turmoil in that sort of transition
Jesus: where you sort of start doubting what,
Jesus: you know, your own experience to a degree
Jesus: and you start working your way through
Jesus: who is my mum and dad
Jesus: and what's the reality and all of those kind of things.
Jesus: But after a period of time
Jesus: of working away through that emotionally,
Jesus: you'd come to terms with the fact that,
Jesus: yes, you had these real parents and,
Jesus: and there was proof and evidence to support that
Jesus: but you were adopted out.
Geoff: So what's made you certain beyond a doubt
Geoff: that these memories are correct?
Geoff: Because there's a lot of stuff in the media
Geoff: about repressed memories not being correct memories
Geoff: and being, you know, that our minds have the ability
Geoff: to fabricate things from different experiences and.
Jesus: Totally, I agree with that.
Geoff: And, and that our memories can't really be relied upon.
Geoff: What makes, what has given you the certainty?
Jesus: The real memories are not the memory of the events,
Jesus: but rather the memory of who I am.
Jesus: It's a bit like somebody coming along
Jesus: and telling you Jeff that your somebody else.
Jesus: No matter how much they try to
Jesus: brainwash you into believing your somebody else,
Jesus: at some point in time in the future
Jesus: you'd probably come to terms with
Jesus: what life you've actually had
Jesus: and who you actually are
Jesus: as a result of that particular life you've led.
Jesus: And that's really what's happened for myself.
Jesus: There's nothing unique about the process,
Jesus: it's just that I've,
Jesus: I've just remembered a lot of my life now
Jesus: that I didn't remember before
Jesus: because of different emotional reasons that I had to, to suppress it.
Jesus: And when I was no longer willing to suppress those particular memories,
Jesus: they just arose quite naturally.
Jesus: And as a result of that now I remember my,
Jesus: you know, almost all of my life for the last two thousand years.
Jesus: And there's still gaps in it
Jesus: that are due to further suppression
Jesus: that I have of some particular memories that I'm aware of,
Jesus: but, but I can tell you, you know, pretty,
Jesus: it'd take quite a few weeks to give you
Jesus: a bit of summary of my life over that period of time obviously.
Jesus: But, but I could give you a pretty concise summary
Jesus: of all the things that have occurred over my life over that period.
Geoff: Yeah, and, and it conflicts in some ways
Geoff: with the biblical account, doesn't it?
Jesus: Of course!
Jesus: Like I, I even have memories of watching
Jesus: the biblical account being modified
Jesus: to suit the people who modified it,
Jesus: in terms of to suit power and manipulation of people and so forth.
Jesus: So not only do I have the memories of my life
Jesus: but also the memories of watching people modify
Jesus: the account of my life to suit their own ends.
Geoff: So you've got memories of the spirit world as well?
Jesus: Yeah. And what we did in the spirit world and so forth.
Jesus: And how I arrived, and what I did after I arrived
Jesus: and what I did when Mary, you know,
Jesus: whilst Mary was still on earth
Jesus: because I passed before Mary did.
Jesus: And what we did until our children passed, our child passed.
Jesus: And then what we did after that as well.
Geoff: So when, when you were in the first century you had a daughter.
Geoff: Is that correct?
Jesus: Yeah. She wasn't born when I died. Mary was pregnant.
Geoff: No, you said you were at six months pregnant.
Jesus: Yeah. And Mary gave birth to her after I passed. Yeah.
Geoff: And you have a memory of watching this
Geoff: from the spirit world all take place?
Jesus: Yeah. Mary was in Egypt at the time
Jesus: and gave birth to Sarah in Egypt. Yeah.
Jesus: And Mary was of course.
Geoff: Well, this puts you in a fairly unique position
Geoff: because I haven't met anybody else
Geoff: who has a memory of the spirit world.
Geoff: What's it like?
Jesus: Well it depends where you are in the spirit world
Jesus: as to what it is like.
Jesus: A lot of people from Earth
Jesus: arrive in the spirit world in quite a dark condition.
Jesus: And when I say dark condition,
Jesus: what I'm doing is referring to their condition of love.
Jesus: So in other words,
Jesus: in the spirit world,
Jesus: it's your condition of love,
Jesus: of love that determines where you arrive
Jesus: and how you generally progress thereafter.
Jesus: And so if a person has a poor condition of love while on earth
Jesus: where they've used their will on earth to attack others,
Jesus: to harm others and to cause harm to the environment and so forth,
Jesus: then what happens is that when they pass
Jesus: they're in a fairly poor condition of love
Jesus: and they're environment in the spirit world matches their condition.
Jesus: And so for the majority of people who pass,
Jesus: they pass into what's called the first sphere
Jesus: or the first dimension of the spirit world.
Jesus: And the first dimension ranges in,
Jesus: from a very, very terrible conditions,
Jesus: which match what, what
Jesus: Dante’s description of hell for example.
Jesus: And, and even worse than that,
Jesus: complete darkness, desolation, no love.
Jesus: Right the way through to what's called
Jesus: the top of the first sphere,
Jesus: which is a location called summer land,
Jesus: which is where many children arrive,
Jesus: and that could be likened to a place
Jesus: that's the most beautiful place you can imagine here on earth.
Jesus: So that's the first dimension.
Jesus: The, the different levels of the first dimension
Jesus: range between those particular conditions.
Jesus: And the average person on earth
Jesus: passes into one location in the first dimension in the spirit world.
Geoff: And that's dependent upon what, their development?
Jesus: Primarily it's their development in love.
Jesus: So how much they understand love
Jesus: and practice it in their day-to-day life.
Jesus: It's got nothing to do with religious background,
Jesus: racial background, you know, gender background.
Jesus: Nothing to do with what kind of life you lead
Jesus: in terms of what society believed about you or felt about you.
Jesus: It's got everything to do with
Jesus: what in reality is love from God's perspective.
Jesus: It's God that set up the universal system
Jesus: and so therefore it's God's laws that are enacted,
Jesus: not mans.
Jesus: And so quite often people feel
Jesus: that they're in a good condition of love,
Jesus: but when they pass into the spirit world
Jesus: they, they soon come to terms with the fact,
Jesus: for many, they soon come to terms with the fact
Jesus: that they're not is as good condition of love as what they believed.
Jesus: There are very few people who pass
Jesus: into the second sphere in the spirit world
Jesus: or the second dimension.
Jesus: And historically, there's only been a few people
Jesus: that have ever passed into the third dimension of the spirit world.
Geoff: Can you give some examples?
Jesus: Gandhi passed into the third sphere of the spirit world,
Jesus: into the third dimension directly.
Jesus: There were historically
Jesus: some of the people who you would like,
Jesus: who, well they're mostly unknowns.
Jesus: People that you wouldn't,
Jesus: that the average person wouldn't know
Jesus: because they've lived very mundane lives on earth
Jesus: and lived very normal,
Jesus: what would be classified as normal lives on earth.
Jesus: Often it's the people who've lived famous lives on earth
Jesus: who pass into the first condition in quite,
Jesus: into the first sphere in quite a poor condition
Jesus: because they had a lot of addictions in play, many of them and
Jesus: also had a lot of intentions that weren't based on love.
Geoff: So the afterlife is as you see it as,
Geoff: it's like people who pass into the hells as you call it,
Geoff: that's not a position of permanency of forever torment.
Geoff: But that's a transitional period and they,
Geoff: everyone has, every soul has the chance to progress.
Geoff: Is that correct?
Jesus: That's correct, yeah.
Jesus: So every soul, every person,
Jesus: no matter where they are,
Jesus: whether they're here on earth or in the spirit world
Jesus: have the chance to progress out of their condition.
Jesus: And the amount of desire they have to do that
Jesus: or what I would classify as the exercise of their freewill,
Jesus: you know, how much they want to do it,
Jesus: will determine how fast they move from one dimension to the next.
Jesus: Unfortunately on earth here there are a lot of impediments,
Jesus: social impediments to progressing beyond a certain condition.
Jesus: Because the more your condition of love
Jesus: is out of harmony with the world's condition,
Jesus: the more generally you're attacked.
Jesus: And this is why the majority of people on earth
Jesus: finish up staying in a certain condition until they pass,
Jesus: because there is this general weight of the world
Jesus: which prevents the person from growing
Jesus: in further conditions of love without,
Jesus: because of their own fear of being attacked,
Jesus: sort of causes them to stagnate if you like.
Jesus: And so, there's many people on earth with good intentions
Jesus: and I'd say there's billions of people on earth with good intentions,
Jesus: but unfortunately our unhealed emotions
Jesus: cause us to be very afraid of different things.
Jesus: In particularly, afraid of violence and attack.
Jesus: And since we're afraid of the violence and attack,
Jesus: we then have a tendency to stagnate
Jesus: in our development to a certain point of love.
Jesus: Once we go beyond that point,
Jesus: there's a higher likelihood of us being attacked
Jesus: or being treated violently.
Jesus: And as a result of that,
Jesus: we have a tendency to stay at a certain point
Jesus: where we've grown to a certain point of love
Jesus: but don't have the courage to
Jesus: make the next step into a greater condition of love.
Jesus: And that's what is the biggest impediment here on earth,
Jesus: the general projection of the environment towards an individual
Jesus: who attempts to grow beyond the condition of love
Jesus: that the average person experiences.
Geoff: And you talk about people as,
Geoff: the soul as coming into the earth's environment
Geoff: as a sort of duality, a female and male.
Jesus: Not always female and male, yeah.
Geoff: But feminine and masculine?
Jesus: Not always, no.
Jesus: The soul itself, the complete soul,
Jesus: when it's amalgamated,
Jesus: has a combination of feminine and masculine qualities.
Jesus: But the soul when it splits
Jesus: has three potential ways of splitting.
Jesus: One way of splitting is for one half to be male
Jesus: and the other half to be female.
Jesus: In other words, one half to be dominantly masculine in qualities
Jesus: and therefore attract a masculine body.
Jesus: And the other half to be dominantly feminine in qualities
Jesus: and therefore attract a feminine body.
Jesus: Then the other alternative is that the soul
Jesus: has more femininity in it as a total,.
Mary: As a personality.
Jesus: As a personality.
Jesus: And when it splits,
Jesus: one half splits with a fair dominance of femininity,
Jesus: so that goes into a female body.
Jesus: And the other half splits into,
Jesus: with a dominance of feminine qualities,
Jesus: into a female body.
Jesus: The third alternative
Jesus: is that the soul is dominantly masculine,
Jesus: even though it does have some feminine qualities.
Jesus: And if that happens,
Jesus: then generally the soul will split into a dominate,
Jesus: one half will split into a dominantly masculine
Jesus: and therefore attract a dominantly masculine body,
Jesus: a male body.
Jesus: And the other half is dominantly masculine
Jesus: so it'll also attract a masculine body.
Jesus: So they are the three potential ways of the soul splitting.
Geoff: So Mary's your soul mate.
Geoff: So is her soul development exactly the same as yours?
Mary: No. Can, can I answer that?
Mary: Yeah. I'd like to answer that.
Mary: No.
Mary: So for every soul,
Mary: as it splits,
Mary: so every soul splits at the time of incarnation.
Mary: And ourselves, we reached a certain development in love,
Mary: which meant that we could re-incarnate
Mary: for one of a better term,
Mary: and we split again.
Jesus: Can I just explain that when
Jesus: we reached that unified condition,
Jesus: we did have exactly the same development in love.
Jesus: Because that's the only way that you can unify
Jesus: by having the same development in love.
Mary: But then for, for any half of a soul, if you like,
Mary: for yourself, equally myself, at this time,
Mary: and, and AJ at this time,
Mary: we're all impacted upon by the environment
Mary: in which we grow up.
Mary: Our connection to God is also limited by those things
Mary: or encouraged depending upon the upbringing that we have.
Mary: And so my soul development,
Mary: which is the development of my soul,
Mary: how I classify is in terms of love,
Mary: and for myself in terms of connection with God,
Mary: because I have a strong passion for God. Our soul.
Mary: Each soul has it's own personality.
Mary: So our soul's personality has a strong desire for God,
Mary: which is part of the reason why historically we're noted for that,
Mary: or at least you are.
Mary: So at incarnation or re-incarnation,
Jesus: the personality remains intact of the soul.
Mary: However the life experience then begins to affect the soul condition.
Mary: So for myself and AJ,
Mary: we've grown up in completely different families.
Mary: And so, and had different experiences,
Mary: had different levels of openness to God and emotion
Mary: according to the family life that we're in this time.
Mary: And so at this stage,
Mary: AJ's soul development in love
Mary: is greater than my own
Mary: but that's not necessarily always going to be the case,
Mary: but it is at this time.
Mary: Does that answer your question well?
Jesus: And it's not because of anything that
Jesus: I have intrinsically that's different than Mary.
Jesus: It's only because we've had different opportunities.
Jesus: I began the process of clearing away
Jesus: the errors of my soul
Jesus: quite a number of years before Mary begun the process.
Jesus: So I sort of had a head start in terms
Jesus: of the process of clearing away the errors in my soul in this life.
Jesus: Which really for me begun probably close to fifteen years ago now,
Jesus: in terms of the processes I was involved in.
Jesus: Whereas for Mary, it really probably begun four years ago. So.
Mary: Yep, maximum. Probably three, really.
Jesus: Yeah. So, so it's just that,
Jesus: if Mary had begun fifteen years ago
Jesus: and I'd begun four years ago,
Jesus: then our situation would be reversed, you know.
Jesus: Where Mary would be in a better condition of love than I would be,
Jesus: because she would have probably dealt with more emotional reasons
Jesus: why she wasn't loving than I would have at this point.
Jesus: So it just, it just has depended upon our circumstances
Jesus: and the different things that happened in our life
Jesus: that got us to the point where we are now.
Jesus: It has got nothing to do with me
Jesus: intrinsically being sort of better or worse than Mary or vice versa.
Jesus: It's just got to do with more,
Jesus: to do with life's opportunities
Jesus: and then what decisions were made with those particular opportunities.
Geoff: Ok. Just back stepping a little bit.
Geoff: In this life, you've been a computer,
Geoff: you've been,
Geoff: you've run a successful computer company
Geoff: for about twenty years, you said.
Jesus: Yep. I also window cleaned and did other things.
Geoff: Yeah. And Mary you were an occupational therapist?
Mary: Yep. Yeah.
Geoff: Ok.
Geoff: Now the Padgett Messages.
Geoff: You talk about them a lot.
Geoff: They've had a big influence on you.
Geoff: Or. Now they claim to be,
Geoff: correct me if I'm wrong,
Geoff: they claim to be automatic writing,
Geoff: messages passed from yourself in the spirit world.
Geoff: Is that correct?
Jesus: That's correct.
Geoff: In about 1920.
Jesus: A, just yeah, in between 1914 and 1920.
Geoff: Ok.
Mary: And not, not just from you.
Jesus: And not just from me.
Mary: From many others.
Jesus: But from a lot of our friends as well in the spirit world.
Geoff: So, can you explain what automatic writing is
Geoff: and this channeling business that a lot of people don't quite
Geoff: understand or have anything or any knowledge of?
Jesus: Sure.
Mary: So, channeling is really just,
Mary: just as you and I are having a conversation.
Mary: It's the ability to have a similar conversation
Mary: with someone who's lost their physical body
Mary: and is now in a spirit form.
Mary: And so that can occur with anyone in the spirit world.
Mary: We began to talk about the different levels
Mary: that exist in the spirit world earlier.
Mary: So anywhere from the first sphere or realm,
Mary: which is a lower condition of love
Mary: than say the seventh or eight sphere,
Mary: which is the transition where we become
Mary: At-One with God, if you like,
Mary: all the way into the celestial heavens,
Mary: which are all the spheres beyond there.
Mary: So the process of channeling
Mary: is having a communication with spirits in one of those realms.
Geoff: And do you, you still currently do that?
Mary: Yes.
Geoff: And how often do you do this?
Jesus: All day, most days.
Geoff: All day, all day every day.
Jesus: Yeah. Well you know, while, while we're sitting here,
Jesus: there a spirits involved in our conversation.
Jesus: There's spirits influencing even your questions
Jesus: and they even influenced you writing down the questions that you had.
Jesus: And there's a lot of spirits involved in terms of,
Jesus: next to each person,
Jesus: in terms of guiding each person.
Jesus: But there is also other spirits
Jesus: who want to influence people negatively.
Jesus: And, and in the first century,
Jesus: I recognized and saw that quite early in my life.
Jesus: And I wasn't impeded as most people were by being blocked to,
Jesus: to those particular interactions with the spirit world.
Jesus: And my friend John The Baptist,
Jesus: he also had a strong feeling for spirits
Jesus: and he could see spirits as well.
Jesus: And so that meant that we could, myself and John,
Jesus: we're only six months apart in terms of age,
Jesus: we could often talk to spirits
Jesus: when mum and our parents weren't around.
Jesus: And so we often learnt a lot through that process
Jesus: and for me that's when it began.
Jesus: For Mary it began in the first century as well like that,
Jesus: where she recognized communication with spirits and.
Mary: But I was certainly under the influence of a lot of spirits
Mary: without recognition for a long time as well.
Mary: And that is the reality for just about all of us on the planet at the moment.
Geoff: Positive or negative?
Mary: Both. At all times and, and well, the majority of times, yeah.
Geoff: Now, there's a lot, there's,
Geoff: since the new age movement began,
Geoff: there's been a lot of people claiming
Geoff: to have channeled a lot of historical figures,
Geoff: and you say that a lot of these people have been deceived.
Geoff: Because we really don't know who's behind the curtain, do we?
Geoff: You know, they say they're somebody but.
Jesus: Yeah. Unless you can physically see them and also feel their
Mary: Discern from a place of love.
Jesus: Yeah, feel the love in the person you're speaking to.
Geoff: So how do you discern who, what you're communicating with?
Jesus: Well, a lot of the people we're communicate with
Jesus: are people we knew on earth in the first century.
Jesus: So you know, they're people who've been with us
Jesus: most of our lives for two thousand years.
Jesus: So for that reason we know them very well
Jesus: and we know who we're talking to.
Jesus: For others, it's a matter of seeing, of,
Jesus: of testing the spirits that come to speak.
Jesus: So the way that you do that is
Jesus: by asking them things about their life
Jesus: and asking them to describe their life on earth
Jesus: and talk to them about their individual circumstances.
Jesus: And in many cases you can verify the, the person,
Jesus: the person's life, you know,
Jesus: when they were on earth at least
Jesus: and verify when they died without actually,
Jesus: after the event of talking to them.
Jesus: So you can easily see whether they were person's
Jesus: lying about those events or not.
Mary: I would say there's more to it for me. Did you want to.
Jesus: No, keep going.
Mary: For myself it requires a level of emotional openness
Mary: to what it is I'm feeling
Mary: and a dedication to my own growth in love.
Mary: The more that I feel I can be discerning about
Mary: about my own emotional condition and,
Mary: and what is truly loving
Mary: and feel with honesty the emotions that are within me,
Mary: the more I feel I can do that with you
Mary: and also with the spirits involved.
Mary: So, I'm not sure,
Mary: that's probably a fairly foreign concept to most people but,
Mary: I feel that if I'm in connection with what it is I'm really feeling,
Mary: not afraid to, to feel what that is,
Mary: then when I'm sitting with you,
Mary: I'll also be open to what you feel.
Mary: Because most of the time the thing that blocks me
Mary: being open to what you feel is
Mary: something that's going to be triggered in me
Mary: when I feel what you feel.
Mary: Does that, is that? Yeah.
Mary: And equally,
Mary: I have the same experience with spirits.
Mary: And so if a spirit comes to me full of rage and anger
Mary: and I can feel that
Mary: and then they try and tell me they're from a
Mary: sphere that's quite developed in love,
Mary: I immediately know that there's a,
Mary: there's an untruth being spoken.
Jesus: Also, also, if I can just address
Jesus: the other part of the question that you asked.
Jesus: And that is, why is it that they're always
Jesus: famous people that people who've channeling.
Jesus: And that is a very, very interesting question.
Jesus: And, and the main answer to that is the fact
Jesus: that the person on earth
Jesus: wants it to be a famous person that they're channeling.
Jesus: And so therefore they are open
Jesus: to suggestion by anybody that, you know.
Jesus: So it's a bit like if you couldn't see me
Jesus: and I came along to you and said,
Jesus: 'Oh, I'm a famous person', that you now,
Jesus: I thought would appeal to you,
Jesus: and you wanted to believe that,
Jesus: you would just probably accept it
Jesus: and then we'd have a talk
Jesus: on the basis of me being that famous person.
Jesus: Over a period of time, if I,
Jesus: if you were open to my feelings
Jesus: and you started questioning me in more detail,
Jesus: you'd soon find out probably
Jesus: whether I'm speaking the truth or not over a period of time.
Jesus: The problem is that most mediums on the planet
Jesus: are not open to doing that
Jesus: because they want every single person who comes to them
Jesus: to be a famous person in history.
Jesus: And there's billions of people
Jesus: who have never been famous on earth
Jesus: but are, who are surrounding the earth constantly
Jesus: and who want to have their moment of fame.
Jesus: And so it's quite easy for them to just falsify their,
Jesus: you know, their identity and the connection.
Mary: People in, people in spirit are really people in spirit often.
Mary: They haven't changed much from when they were on earth and.
Jesus: Yeah. If they could falsify something and get away with it, they will.
Mary: Yeah.
Geoff: Now, you've, this knowledge that you've said
Geoff: that there's going to be earth changes in 2012,
Geoff: did you have this knowledge
Geoff: or did you get this knowledge
Geoff: from celestial beings that have,
Geoff: that have given you this knowledge?
Geoff: Or because, in about twenty years ago
Geoff: I read a number of different channeled books,
Geoff: that purported to have been Andronicus
Geoff: and all sorts of things,
Geoff: and they also claimed of calamities
Geoff: that were going to happen in the late eighties
Geoff: and the late nineties.
Geoff: And, and the Jehovah's Witnesses as you've say
Geoff: have had people say that it was going to happen in 1914.
Geoff: This knowledge that you've got.
Geoff: First of all, can you tell us what you believe
Geoff: is going to happen next year in 2012.
Jesus: Well the interesting thing is that we don't have any,
Jesus: what I would call firm time frame for events that will occur.
Jesus: We just have, we just have our feelings to go by.
Jesus: And my feelings are often different to Mary's feelings
Jesus: on that particular matter.
Mary: Yeah, we need to state that clearly.
Jesus: And so, my feelings, my feelings are
Jesus: that sometime over the coming few years,
Jesus: there are going to be fairly significant earth based events
Jesus: that are caused by a combination of events.
Jesus: The two events primarily that are causing it
Jesus: is the amount of resistance and fear on the planet
Jesus: that's causing man-kind to take certain actions
Jesus: that they're taking to destroy the planet,
Jesus: and then the corresponding force of God's love
Jesus: permeating through the universe
Jesus: in ever increasing dosages if you like.
Jesus: And the, the combination of these two factors
Jesus: cause events to actually occur,
Jesus: in fact cause the evolution of man-kind
Jesus: into a more positive condition.
Jesus: And they do affect physically every single thing in the universe.
Jesus: So every single thing in the universe
Jesus: has a raised potential of evolution
Jesus: as God's love permeates each, each of those creations.
Geoff: But from what I heard you describe,
Geoff: it sounds, you are, I think,
Geoff: when you were giving a seminar in Greece,
Geoff: you mentioned three super volcanoes,
Geoff: a shift of tectonic plates and a,
Geoff: and a reversal of the polarity and,
Geoff: and large water.
Geoff: And that sounded fairly dramatic.
Jesus: Well, but the reality,
Jesus: remember if you listen to that entire discussion that I had in Greece,
Jesus: right at the start of the discussion
Jesus: I put in a fairly major disclaimer.
Jesus: Which was,
Jesus: I actually felt that's what would happen at,
Jesus: that's the feeling I had at this particular point in time.
Jesus: And while I still have those same feelings
Jesus: that those particular events will occur,
Jesus: that doesn't mean that there isn't a potential for them to change.
Jesus: Secondly.
Geoff: But you said about March or April next year, at the time.
Jesus: That's what I said at the time.
Jesus: I said at the time this is what I feel.
Geoff: But you're not so sure about that now,
Geoff: is that what you're saying?
Jesus: No. No.
Jesus: What I'm saying is that people ask me what I feel
Jesus: and all I can ever do is tell them what I feel at that time.
Geoff: So this is an intuition more than a message from?
Jesus: Yes, and I've said,
Jesus: I've stated quite categorically
Jesus: that until I'm At-One with God,
Jesus: I cannot state for certain
Jesus: any particular event of what will occur in the future.
Jesus: It's only when you're At-Onement with God
Jesus: that you can do so with any degree of accuracy.
Geoff: Now you, you said that it took you until about the age of thirty
Geoff: to be At-One with God in your first incarnation.
Jesus: Yes.
Geoff: When and you say that your a working progress at the moment.
Jesus: Yes.
Geoff: When do you believe that time is going to come?
Jesus: Well in the first century what happened was that,
Jesus: I was about eighteen years of age
Jesus: when I started to contemplate
Jesus: that I was possibly the Messiah
Jesus: that was foretold in the bible that I'd,
Jesus: you know, in the parts of the bible that I'd read at the time.
Jesus: It wasn't called the bible then obviously,
Jesus: it was the Books Of The Prophets that we used to read as Jews.
Jesus: And, and after reading my way through those
Jesus: and having a deep interest in those
Jesus: for many years of my life in the first century,
Jesus: by the time I was eighteen
Jesus: I started to contemplate that perhaps
Jesus: I might be that particular Messiah that was spoken of.
Jesus: And by the time I was twenty one
Jesus: I was quite certain that I was that person
Jesus: that I realized that I had to do quite a lot of
Jesus: development in love to become that person.
Jesus: And so it took me around,
Jesus: if you take from eighteen to thirty one years of age
Jesus: was when I became At-One with God in the first century,
Jesus: in that so, it took me thirteen years if you like
Jesus: for me to become At-One with God in the first century
Jesus: after having a concept of what that meant inside of myself.
Geoff: And you claim that you're the first human being
Geoff: to have ever done that?
Jesus: Yes. First person in this planet
Jesus: to have ever done that, yes.
Jesus: I do feel that there are persons on other planets
Jesus: who have done that
Jesus: and there was always a first.
Jesus: It's a bit like, there's,
Jesus: there's a first person to discover flight.
Jesus: And there's a first person to discover
Jesus: all sorts of scientific endeavors, if you like.
Geoff: And so you can see yourself working
Geoff: towards this same state in this life?
Jesus: Yes. Yes. So, it was only about eight years ago
Jesus: that I recognized
Jesus: and had the memories of who I was return to me.
Jesus: And also then recognized within myself
Jesus: the desire to become At-One with God again
Jesus: in that same kind of condition.
Jesus: And so for the last eight years
Jesus: I've been working towards that goal.
Jesus: And if it takes me another eight years,
Jesus: I wouldn't be disappointed.
Jesus: Do you know what I mean? Like, so.
Geoff: And when you were in this state in the first century,
Geoff: you had a reputation of being a healer and a miracle worker.
Geoff: Is this, is this true?
Jesus: Well parts of it were true.
Jesus: There were certain things that,
Jesus: it was claimed that I did,
Jesus: that I didn't actually do.
Jesus: And but there were certain things that I certainly did do.
Jesus: But that only occurred after I became At-One with God
Jesus: and it was dependent upon God.
Jesus: It wasn't, it wasn't something that I could do at my own.
Mary: Will really.
Jesus: Well at my own choice, if you like.
Jesus: Because, but because my choices were in harmony with Gods,
Jesus: when you become At-One with God,
Jesus: your choices are in harmony with God's.
Jesus: It meant that my choice was the same as God's choice
Jesus: and under those circumstances
Jesus: I could heal if the person who was,
Jesus: who was being healed
Jesus: also had a desire to be healed.
Jesus: So if they didn't have a desire to be healed
Jesus: and it had to be a true desire that they felt in their heart,
Jesus: not just an intellectual desire,
Jesus: then I couldn't heal them anyway.
Mary: If you contrast it, I mean,
Mary: it's possible for me,
Mary: for you to heal me right now.
Mary: There just has to be a certain set of conditions.
Mary: And that is that you're in harmony with
Mary: God's desire for that healing to happen,
Mary: and that I am in a place of openness
Mary: and faith for that to happen.
Mary: Now, because at the time AJ was
Mary: completely in harmony with God's desires,
Mary: when he healed someone,
Mary: he could always heal them. But.
Jesus: But I didn't heal everyone I met
Jesus: because it depended upon their condition, their desire.
Geoff: So even crippled, blind, those stories in the bible?
Jesus: All those stories involving cripples and blind people
Jesus: and other physical ailments
Jesus: including loss of limbs and all of those stories are all true.
Jesus: But all the stories involving
Jesus: what I would call 'super-natural feats'
Jesus: were not true.
Jesus: So for example, the, the claim that I
Jesus: turned water into wine, for example is not true.
Geoff: The walking on the water,
Geoff: you didn't go skiing that day?
Jesus: No. I didn't walk on water.
Jesus: Although I do believe it's possible.
Geoff: Did you find fish over the other side of the boat in more quantities?
Jesus: Yes, but that's quite simple.
Jesus: Because all you have to do is have the psychic ability
Jesus: to have a spirit tell you that this is where the fish are.
Geoff: You didn't calm the waters?
Geoff: Or did you calm the disciples?
Jesus: Well both probably.
Jesus: The reality is you can calm your environment through your emotions.
Jesus: So the reality is that one reason
Jesus: why the earth is experiencing
Jesus: a lot of quite difficult environmental events
Jesus: is because of the fear of the people on the earth.
Jesus: And if you reduce the fear of people on the earth
Jesus: then the environment responds differently
Jesus: to the soul of the people on the earth.
Jesus: So the reality is is if you calm the individual
Jesus: at a soul level
Jesus: then the environment around them also calms,
Jesus: and that's something that God created
Jesus: as part of the truth of the environment we live in.
Jesus: And that can be demonstrated scientifically
Jesus: and that's one of the things I'd certainly
Jesus: hope to demonstrate in the future scientifically.
Jesus: So there are some truths
Jesus: that are presented in the scriptures about what I did
Jesus: and then there are some falsifications
Jesus: that try to make me more powerful than I was
Jesus: in order to compare me with other,
Jesus: with other people who had likewise been lied about
Jesus: about what they did in order to make it more
Jesus: palatable for different people to become Christian.
Jesus: But also this concept,
Jesus: there was this concept that they couldn't,
Jesus: many people couldn't understand
Jesus: the degree of love that I displayed.
Jesus: And so then began treating me
Jesus: as if I was some divine individual or God,
Jesus: rather than just a person who was At-One with God
Jesus: or who had learnt from God.
Jesus: And so that, that was part of the problem.
Jesus: It was this, it was the misconception of people
Jesus: as well of what it meant to be At-One with God.
Geoff: So, so, in the future.
Jesus: What did you wanna say?
Mary: I just wanted to say that this is really integral to,
Mary: to why we're here
Mary: and why we are here in the way that we are.
Mary: Why there's not just one of us,
Mary: why there's in fact fourteen of us.
Mary: All coming from a condition of quite perceptible error
Mary: in our lives prior to now and even now.
Mary: It's quite easy to see that we're not perfect individuals perfected in love.
Mary: But the purpose of doing so and doing so now
Mary: apparently increasingly more publicly
Mary: is to demonstrate that it's not because Jesus is God,
Mary: that, that he was so amazing,
Mary: that this potential exists within every soul that God has created.
Mary: And that's, that's really.
Mary: A lot of people ask us about our identities
Mary: and a lot of people are
Mary: fascinated or dubious or attacking even
Mary: about this process of memory.
Mary: And while I feel it's valid to ask all of those questions,
Mary: I also feel that there are other questions
Mary: that I hope become more prevalent in people
Mary: that follow on from there about
Mary: why is this so, and why would you do this, and'.
Mary: Because that's really the basis of why we are here.
Mary: And I understand that it's shocking
Mary: and people need to ask about
Mary: or people want to ask about these things,
Mary: but I look forward to the day when
Mary: people ask more about God and about love,
Mary: because that's certainly what we're passionate about.
Jesus: Yeah, the reality for both of us
Jesus: is that the Jesus and Mary Magdalene thing
Jesus: is not that important,
Jesus: we feel is not that important to anybody else but ourselves.
Geoff: So your messages are more important?
Jesus: Of course. It's like, it's like
Jesus: your identity is really important to yourself,
Jesus: like, you are who you are.
Geoff: I guess its important for this interview
Geoff: in that there is much skepticism about obviously
Geoff: what you claim and you expect that.
Jesus: Of course.
Mary/Jesus: Yes.
Geoff: And, and so I'm trying to address that skepticism.
Jesus: Yeah. Can I, can I point out though that you,
Jesus: when I met you,
Jesus: you came up to me and said that you were Geoff,
Jesus: and I didn't, I didn't have skepticism about your claim.
Geoff: No. No.
Jesus: So, so the main purpose of the skepticism
Jesus: is because of my claim that I'm Jesus.
Jesus: It's not.
Geoff: Yeah.
Jesus: Like, if I was saying that I was just Alan John Miller,
Jesus: and I'm claiming I'm Alan John Miller,
Jesus: everyone's fine with that.
Jesus: But as soon as I claim that I'm Jesus,
Jesus: that's when everybody becomes skeptical.
Mary: And to some degree.
Geoff: Well I guess because a lot of people regard Jesus,
Geoff: the historical Jesus,
Geoff: as being probably the most influential character
Geoff: of the last two thousand years.
Geoff: And when someone comes along and says 'Hey, I'm him',
Geoff: you know, I guess we have the right
Geoff: to say 'Well, I need a little bit of proof here', you know.
Mary: I, I wouldn't say that,
Mary: I don't, I, I don't know about the right.
Mary: I feel it's natural to desire to discern whether it's truth or not.
Jesus: And we're perfectly happy to answer any questions associated with it,
Jesus: but, but if a person demands of us the right,
Jesus: then, then I feel that they're a bit out of line, really.
Geoff: No, that's fine.
Jesus: The, the, the reality is
Jesus: that it will soon become apparent
Jesus: whether what we're claiming to be is true or not, you know.
Jesus: So, you know,
Jesus: if somebody comes and visits us in ten years time
Jesus: and we haven't progressed beyond what we are today
Jesus: and we haven't done anything more than what we've have done today,
Jesus: then I'm sure people would be very skeptical.
Jesus: The other problem that people have I feel
Jesus: when it comes to the claim of being Jesus
Jesus: is that they, they expect,
Jesus: they, they remember the Jesus
Jesus: who is thirty one years old onwards.
Jesus: In other words, they know nothing of me before that time.
Jesus: The only other record of me in the bible
Jesus: is when I was twelve years old,
Jesus: and even that was incorrect.
Jesus: So, you know, there's my birth
Jesus: and a few months after my birth,
Jesus: that's recorded,
Jesus: then there's a gap of twelve years.
Jesus: Then I'm twelve
Jesus: and there's one event that was recorded.
Jesus: And then there's a gap of eighteen years.
Jesus: And then there's another event,
Jesus: a series of events recorded.
Jesus: And people don't contemplate very much
Jesus: what happened in those gapped years,
Jesus: what, what, what were the events of Jesus's life
Jesus: in the times in between.
Jesus: And, and what I'm demonstrating to people now is,
Jesus: what I'm doing now is what happened in between.
Jesus: This is the process of becoming At-One with God.
Jesus: This is what it involved for me in the first century
Jesus: and this is what is going to involve for any body
Jesus: who wishes to become At-One with God.
Jesus: And, and, and I can remember the gaps in between
Jesus: if anybody's interested to hear,
Jesus: but what do you have to verify it with.
Jesus: Nothing.
Jesus: And so, so, at the end of the day
Jesus: you can ask me questions about my life,
Jesus: in particular the questions about my life
Jesus: in all of those gapped years,
Jesus: but what proof do you have
Jesus: that even what I'm saying about that is even true.
Jesus: There's none, really.
Jesus: And until such a time
Jesus: as the so called physical evidence
Jesus: or the miraculous evidence appears,
Jesus: which only appeared in the first century
Jesus: after I became At-One with God,
Jesus: until such a time
Jesus: there's probably going to be lots of disbelief
Jesus: about my claim.
Jesus: And, and I can't see whether that,
Jesus: how that cannot be the case.
Mary: Yeah. And, and if I could add to that.
Mary: I don't want to take over your interview Geoff.
Mary: But I feel that for myself personally,
Mary: and I think for AJ also,
Mary: we really have absolutely no expectation
Mary: that people believe us on these claims.
Geoff: No, you don't seem to care.
Mary: Not at all.
Mary: And in fact most,
Mary: I would say the majority of people in our life
Mary: really haven't resolved the issue for themselves.
Jesus: Definitely haven't.
Mary: And. Yeah, it's not a, it's not a. Much is.
Mary: The media portrayed,
Mary: I think somebody counted the amount of times
Mary: were shown AJ writing on the board
Mary: 'I'm Jesus, deal with it'.
Mary: And, which was shown quite out of context.
Mary: And out of context it does seem like
Mary: the main trust of what we're saying is
Mary: 'I'm Jesus and I'm here and you've got to deal with it'.
Mary: Which is actually not the truth.
Jesus: Which was a combination of three years of presentations,
Jesus: fifty two presentations a year.
Jesus: So after nearly two hundred presentations,
Jesus: people were still coming up
Jesus: and asking me the identical questions
Jesus: they were asking me three years earlier
Jesus: about the Jesus issue.
Jesus: And I'm just saying,
Jesus: 'Well look, I'm saying I'm Jesus'.
Jesus: 'You're going to have to deal with that sooner or later'.
Jesus: 'Let's get on to some other subject that matters', you know.
Mary: Yeah.
Geoff: Alright, well let's get onto another subject that matters.
Mary: Sure.
Geoff: You talk a lot about emotional clearing,
Geoff: as this part of the divine path,
Geoff: you have to deal with your emotions.
Geoff: Is that true?
Geoff: You, you spend a lot of time
Geoff: getting people to get in,
Geoff: get in touch with their emotions and,
Geoff: and you say that 'this is how,
Geoff: this is how they will heal,
Geoff: come to good health
Geoff: and this is also how they will learn
Geoff: what it is to be loving in the divine sense'.
Mary: Can I?
Jesus: You go first.
Mary: I'll go first and I'm sure you'll add.
Geoff: Is it something that you did in the first century,
Geoff: because there's, there's, you know?
Mary: Not a lot of record.
Geoff: There's not a lot of record of you doing that.
Geoff: Is this a new angle or?
Mary: New and improved.
Jesus: I'd dispute you about the first century for a start,
Jesus: but we can talk about that after Mary's answered.
Mary: I feel the process of becoming At-One with God
Mary: is the same now as it was then.
Mary: And I know that there's a lot of language I suppose
Mary: surrounding us about emotional processing,
Mary: clearing emotions,
Mary: the different emotions, fear, anger, grief.
Mary: And while I feel that's a really
Mary: valuable aspect of what we're teaching,
Mary: for me it's about a connection to our soul
Mary: and a recognition that unless I connect with my soul,
Mary: I can't connect with the creator of my soul
Mary: and my soul is inherently emotional.
Mary: It's an emotional construct that God created.
Mary: And unfortunately on the planet,
Mary: there are a lot of emotions within every soul
Mary: that are out of harmony with love.
Mary: But in my day to day life,
Mary: I don't really have a focus on emotional processing,
Mary: I have a focus on creating a connection with my father, God.
Mary: And, and in that process,
Mary: I become emotional
Mary: and I ask God to remove from me
Mary: the emotions which are in error
Mary: and in disharmony with love.
Mary: Now in the first century that happened
Mary: but perhaps the language in which it's described
Mary: and even in the Padgett Messages is a little different
Mary: to the language that we use now.
Mary: But it is essentially the same process.
Mary: For one to, if you think about
Mary: emotions like greed and pride and jealousy,
Mary: they're all things mentioned commonly in the bible, I think,
Mary: although I not ofay with the bible
Mary: as much as perhaps you both are.
Mary: The true way to eradicate those things
Mary: from our souls is an emotional way.
Mary: So it can be done if you like,
Mary: from an intellectual sense,
Mary: but the injury still exists within our soul.
Mary: So that process,
Mary: which I was a part of in the first century
Mary: of eradicating those things from my soul
Mary: was very emotional.
Mary: But I didn't call it emotional processing at the time, you know.
Jesus: It was more of a natural feeling.
Mary: It's, it's a natural feeling and honestly,
Mary: the more that I connect to this longing for God,
Mary: the process becomes emotional.
Mary: And I'm sure many Christians have,
Mary: and other people who desire,
Jesus: Of all sorts of religions.
Mary: A connection to God of all religious
Mary: and non-religious,
Mary: classical, traditional, religious groupings
Mary: would say it is a very emotional experience
Mary: when one desires to connect with God.
Mary: And I think that the reason we talk about
Mary: emotions so commonly is that,
Mary: and, and we use perhaps different language,
Mary: that we're trying to present it in a way
Mary: that people can use and understand.
Mary: For myself,
Mary: I feel that in terms of the way
Mary: that I've been teaching about that is changing,
Mary: as I change and understand and remember
Mary: my relationship with God in a lot more clarity.
Mary: So, in the past I was quite focused on emotions
Mary: and, with, with, because I was shut down to this longing to God,
Mary: that now I feel pulls me through emotions
Mary: and into a lot of joy quite rapidly.
Jesus: Yeah. I'd sort of go a bit further than Mary on the issue.
Jesus: I feel that,
Jesus: I feel one of the major impediments
Jesus: that man-kind has today
Jesus: is the amount of effort we've spent
Jesus: shutting down the true condition of our heart.
Jesus: So, in other words,
Jesus: most people on their, in their day to day life
Jesus: falsify their true feelings
Jesus: and their true thoughts quite frequently.
Jesus: And, and we need somehow
Jesus: to help people stop doing
Jesus: that so that they become more truthful
Jesus: and more open and more honest
Jesus: about what they're really feeling
Jesus: and what they're really thinking.
Jesus: And to do that we need to help them understand
Jesus: what's a true emotion and what's a fabricated emotion.
Jesus: And what I mean by that is that,
Jesus: emotions like anger, for example,
Jesus: are fabrications of a, the denial of a deeper emotion.
Jesus: And usually, and it is well known in psychological circles
Jesus: that if a person's angry,
Jesus: they're usually quite afraid of something.
Jesus: And in their denial of their fear they,
Jesus: they use anger as a method
Jesus: of controlling their fear based response.
Jesus: And so there does need to be to a degree
Jesus: an understanding about emotions
Jesus: before a person can really understand
Jesus: what it means to be child like
Jesus: in the manner in which they express their truth.
Jesus: In other words,
Jesus: the way they speak the truth and feel it.
Jesus: And, and I feel one of the
Jesus: primary impediments on the planet
Jesus: is that people don't know how to do that
Jesus: because we've been so far removed from it.
Jesus: And in removing ourselves from that
Jesus: we've removed ourselves from the way
Jesus: in which we connect with God.
Jesus: And so for that reason,
Jesus: we've had to spend a bit of time,
Jesus: you know, quite a few years of my time
Jesus: has been spent up to this point
Jesus: trying to help people work through
Jesus: the fact that when they're angry,
Jesus: they're actually denying something for example.
Jesus: And when they're afraid,
Jesus: they're shutting down other emotions that they actually have.
Jesus: When they're afraid,
Jesus: they're shutting down desires that they actually feel.
Jesus: In other words, they're,
Jesus: they're not doing the things they really want to do
Jesus: because they're afraid.
Jesus: And they need to deal with their fears
Jesus: and start working through their fears.
Mary: If they want to live in their desires.
Jesus: If they wanna be, yeah, live in a passionate life.
Jesus: And once they can at least start to understand that,
Jesus: then they can understand how God is involved in the process.
Jesus: They can begin to understand how to connect to God
Jesus: and ask for God's help to deal with these particular emotions.
Jesus: Now in the first century,
Jesus: I used to talk about that quite frequently.
Jesus: I talked about the emotions of individuals.
Jesus: And the way that I confronted them
Jesus: mostly was by suggesting, suggesting to them
Jesus: different actions that would confront those emotions.
Jesus: So if, if a man was rich
Jesus: and he was very afraid to give up his riches,
Jesus: I would suggest to him that he sells everything he has
Jesus: and gives it to the poor.
Jesus: But if a man was poor,
Jesus: then I would make a different suggestion to,
Jesus: to confront different emotions.
Jesus: If a person had a family
Jesus: then I'd make a whole different set of emotions,
Jesus: conditions to deal with their emotions.
Jesus: And everything I suggested to them
Jesus: was about trying to confront their emotional condition.
Jesus: When you look at the Padgett Messages,
Jesus: I often refer in the Padgett Messages
Jesus: my own writings to Padgett,
Jesus: to passion, desire, longing and those kind of emotions.
Jesus: The importance of having a development
Jesus: of passion and soul based longing inside of yourself
Jesus: to follow a certain course of action,
Jesus: and in this case towards God.
Jesus: And so, we are often focusing on
Jesus: trying to help the person become
Jesus: more passionate, more loving, more,
Jesus: you know, more longing in their soul,
Jesus: more, more desire.
Jesus: And, and this is what we're trying to do now.
Jesus: And the things that shut down desire and passion,
Jesus: is primarily fear and grief.
Jesus: And our, our fear of our grief
Jesus: often is what prevents us from
Jesus: living a passionate life in the future.
Jesus: We've, we've had negative things happen in the past
Jesus: and that causes us then to be shut down
Jesus: to becoming open and passionate, desirous in our future.
Jesus: And so those emotions do need to be addressed
Jesus: if a persons ever going to become close,
Jesus: going to become close to God.
Geoff: Ok now, the character of God as,
Geoff: as you describe it,
Geoff: a lot of new age people who are
Geoff: often recovering Christians and recovering Catholics,
Geoff: and who have moved into a,
Geoff: I guess an understanding of God
Geoff: that's a bit larger than the biblical one,
Geoff: they see God as natural law
Geoff: and God as the universe,
Geoff: and maybe there is something within them
Geoff: that is what they might refer to as Divine Spark
Geoff: that is going to mature towards this universal power somehow.
Geoff: But you refer to God as a being,
Geoff: which is very different.
Geoff: And you refer to God as the creator
Geoff: and that he is a being that we can
Geoff: actually have a relationship with.
Geoff: And I think a lot of people have
Geoff: sort of removed that possibility
Geoff: after seeing many people throughout thousands of years
Geoff: ask this being for things that weren't forthcoming.
Geoff: And they also look around them
Geoff: and they see much beauty in the world
Geoff: and they say 'Yep, there's God'.
Geoff: But they also look around
Geoff: and they see much cruelty and a lot of suffering,
Geoff: a four year old with cancer for example,
Geoff: animals getting eaten alive, you know, by parasites.
Geoff: And they think 'Well,
Geoff: what sort of, is this a God place or not'?
Geoff: And so, a lot of people say
Geoff: 'Well, I'm having difficulty in believing God
Geoff: as a being who created this
Geoff: when it's not a pretty picture down here'.
Mary: Geoff, just there's a problem with your camera.
Jesus: Your camera is just a.
Geoff: Is it flashing?
Ljena: If it's going to be a long answer
Ljena: and it's three minutes left on the tape.
Geoff: Three minutes left of the tape.
Mary: Do you have another tape?
Geoff: Yeah, I, yep.
Mary: Because we can answer.
Geoff: Yeah. I'll just stop it there if you're happy to keep going.
Geoff: I said half an hour, and you've been going for an hour.
Jesus: No, that's fine.
Geoff: Alright now, new tape.
Geoff: Now, you're answering the question of God being a personal being
Geoff: and people having a lot of,
Geoff: a lot of trouble coming to terms with that these days.
Jesus: The question you've asked
Jesus: is what I would believe to be the fundamental question
Jesus: that every person in the universe needs to ask.
Jesus: The reason why I believe it's the fundamental question
Jesus: is that, if, if God is not a personal being that we can connect to,
Jesus: then it's pointless talking about having a relationship with God.
Jesus: What's left is a relationship with people
Jesus: or with other, with other creation,
Jesus: if you could call it that,
Jesus: or other things that have evolved,
Jesus: obviously if there's no, if there's no creator,
Jesus: then there's got to be a process of creation
Jesus: or involvement that has occurred.
Jesus: So, so to me it is a fundamental question.
Jesus: Another reason why it's a fundamental question
Jesus: is because one of the things I discovered in the first century
Jesus: is that most people had a very, very limited view point of God,
Jesus: if a view point at all.
Jesus: And this is why I feel the majority of people are
Jesus: what you would classify as being agnostic.
Jesus: In other words, they are very unsettled and uncertain
Jesus: about the existence of God in either direction.
Jesus: And so they finish up giving up on the issue
Jesus: of whether God exists
Jesus: and focusing more and more on their personal lives
Jesus: and getting happiness in their personal life
Jesus: rather than connecting with God.
Geoff: Is this a fault of the design? You know, like if.
Jesus: No, I don't believe so.
Geoff: Like, like an Atheist might say that if,
Geoff: if we are all supposed to be following a divine path,
Geoff: why isn't that path laid out?
Jesus: Well it is.
Geoff: Well, a little bit more clearly.
Jesus: It is.
Mary: Yeah, I feel it is.
Geoff: And you feel it is?
Jesus/Mary: Yeah.
Geoff: Yeah. But they don't.
Mary: But I do understand. Sorry.
Jesus: Sorry. Do you wanna?
Geoff: Go for it Mary.
Mary: No, you go. You answer the question. You answer it.
Jesus: Because you're going to get involved in, yeah.
Mary: I'm passionate about it as well.
Mary: So when you're finished,
Mary: I'll, if, I'll say a couple of things.
Jesus: Well the, the issue you face.
Jesus: If I can answer it logically first is, the,
Jesus: the issue we face is this.
Jesus: We are perceiving God based on error.
Jesus: We, we are coming from our error based condition
Jesus: and trying to examine God.
Jesus: That's what man-kind is currently doing.
Jesus: And because of that
Jesus: what we're doing is we're analyzing our environment
Jesus: and we're going 'If this is what all what God created,
Jesus: then, then we can then suppose that this God isn't a very nice God,
Jesus: or God is not interested in us all,
Jesus: or God doesn't exist at all'.
Jesus: However, that pre-supposes that what we have currently to examine
Jesus: is actually not being modified by humans themselves
Jesus: and their own condition.
Jesus: And I put to you that actually,
Jesus: through the process of physics,
Jesus: it's now been proven that the observer definitely modifies
Jesus: the results with regard to anything.
Jesus: And this is the problem we face on earth.
Jesus: If we continue to examine God
Jesus: from the point of view of where we are,
Jesus: we are going to continually have a problem with our logic.
Jesus: Because our logic is going to be dependent upon
Jesus: examining God from this perspective,
Jesus: which is only one perspective.
Jesus: It's like looking at that sun from the earth
Jesus: and saying 'well the sun's that big'.
Jesus: When, we could go to the sun,
Jesus: and, and we'd find that it's actually huge,
Jesus: huge, far bigger than, than, than
Jesus: millions of earths put together.
Geoff: Well I guess that compounds the problem,
Geoff: because you know,
Geoff: we're looking at documentaries where
Geoff: for forty million years all there were trilobites
Geoff: and we think 'Well, what was God doing then'?
Geoff: 'How was he entertained by getting these trilobites animated'?
Jesus: Exactly. Exactly. And,
Jesus: and then there's this supposition to that, that, that,
Jesus: 'Oh, if God does exist,
Jesus: then why has God allowed these millions of years to pass for,
Jesus: for different things to be developed,
Jesus: for things to follow a seemingly evolutionary pattern
Jesus: that, that scientists to a degree agree upon'.
Jesus: And, and so what we finish up with is,
Jesus: we finish up with this concept
Jesus: that we are going to judge God
Jesus: through one of a few different means.
Jesus: Firstly, we judge God by what's happening on earth.
Jesus: Secondly, we judge God by religions definition of God.
Jesus: And thirdly, we judge God by our own scientific achievements.
Jesus: In other words, the understanding, our own scientific understanding in the day.
Jesus: Now, now, all of those,
Jesus: coming from those three perspectives
Jesus: is flawed in logic in every single case.
Jesus: If we look at coming from the perspective of God through science,
Jesus: we are basically saying that a person who,
Jesus: if there is a God who created our body.
Jesus: We can't even understand our body at this point or how it works.
Jesus: We have no understanding really about our body
Jesus: and how it works physiologically.
Jesus: We don't understand genetics still.
Jesus: We don't understand so many things about the brain.
Jesus: In fact, the brain is like a great big unknown
Jesus: when it comes to medical science.
Jesus: And, and yet, what we're saying is,
Jesus: this body and this brain is capable of,
Jesus: of judging the God that created it.
Jesus: Now that to me makes no logical sense.
Jesus: If we come at God from the position of current religion.
Jesus: If we look at religion,
Jesus: in every single case,
Jesus: religion has been created
Jesus: by the emotions of man-kind
Jesus: generally to dominate other men and women.
Jesus: So it comes from a flawed concept,
Jesus: immediately and then it creates or constructs a God
Jesus: that is violent, angry, abusive, often genocidal.
Jesus: And it constructs a God
Jesus: and then imposes that God upon its self,
Jesus: the religion that constructed it.
Jesus: And, and coming from that perspective,
Jesus: I put is flawed,
Jesus: because even the most loving person in that religion
Jesus: is better than the God they’re worshiping in most cases.
Jesus: And so, and so when we examine God from this perspective of science,
Jesus: or we examine God from a perspective of religion,
Jesus: and what was the first one that I mentioned,
Jesus: I can't remember now,
Jesus: the perspective of location,
Jesus: in every single time,
Jesus: what we're doing is,
Jesus: we are coming from a limited perspective
Jesus: trying to examine a God,
Jesus: that if, if exists,
Jesus: created all of these things
Jesus: and therefore would have a far better perspective
Jesus: of what, of what is actually going on.
Jesus: And then we start to judge it through human suffering.
Jesus: And so what we do is we look at the suffering on the planet.
Jesus: And we look at the suffering.
Jesus: As humans are, humans are by nature quite arrogant.
Jesus: Because what we do,
Jesus: is we own every achievement that seems to be positive,
Jesus: but everything that seems to be negative,
Jesus: we blame on somebody else.
Jesus: So what we do is we look at the earth and we go
Jesus: 'Oh, these negative things that happen on earth,
Jesus: this parasite ate this dog and,
Jesus: you know, these kind of things are all happening,
Jesus: so that proves to me
Jesus: that God created a terrible system or,
Jesus: or there is no God'.
Jesus: When in reality, it doesn't place into,
Jesus: into the, the pot one major condition.
Jesus: And that is, man-kind heavily modifies its own environment
Jesus: and then measures God by that environment that it's modified.
Jesus: And that in itself is a flawed position.
Jesus: So what I realized in the first century
Jesus: was that the way man-kind was examining
Jesus: or attempting to examine God
Jesus: was very flawed in almost every case.
Jesus: And so, what I did is I took a different perspective.
Jesus: The perspective I took then was this.
Jesus: I said that if there was a God,
Jesus: because all we're trying to do is prove
Jesus: whether there is a personal God or not,
Jesus: that's, that's the basic underlying thing.
Jesus: We need to have a way of proving it.
Jesus: And what I was suggesting,
Jesus: what I suggested to myself was,
Jesus: 'If there is a God who is a personal God,
Jesus: it would make logical sense
Jesus: that that personal God would give her creation,
Jesus: her children,
Jesus: a way to connect to her
Jesus: to prove to see whether there was this God or not,
Jesus: and whether, and what God's nature was'.
Jesus: And it would make sense that,
Jesus: that God also showed us the road map
Jesus: by showing a relationship between a parent and a child.
Jesus: It would make sense to me that, that relationship.
Geoff: So in that relationship,
Geoff: can God intervene in our circumstances?
Geoff: Because we don't see much evidence of.
Geoff: We see a lot of people praying for intervention,
Geoff: but we don't see a lot of evidence of intervention.
Jesus: Well, we can get to that question separately,
Jesus: because that's a separate, it is a separate question.
Geoff: Ok.
Jesus: The, the question of intervention
Jesus: is all about who defines what is loving intervention.
Jesus: Now man-kind think again in their arrogance
Jesus: that they should be able to define what is loving intervention.
Jesus: But if you look at most of man-kind's actions,
Jesus: what we often do
Jesus: is we create a whole series of negative events
Jesus: and then we expect somebody else to come along
Jesus: and fix them for us.
Jesus: And when that somebody else does come along and fix them for us,
Jesus: we then go ahead and create a whole new series of unloving events generally
Jesus: and then we want somebody else to come along and fix those for us as well.
Jesus: And so this is the problem again
Jesus: of examining it from the point of view of intervention.
Jesus: Why would God intervene with something
Jesus: that man-kind actually created for themselves.
Jesus: It would make more sense for a loving person to say,
Jesus: 'No, you created this event,
Jesus: you need to learn how to resolve it.
Jesus: You need to learn how to become more loving to resolve the issue'.
Mary: And that is a loving provision I feel,
Mary: that any parent would have for their child.
Mary: Like, a loving parent would desire for their child
Mary: to learn how to take responsibility for themselves,
Mary: for their own soul,
Mary: so that they may navigate through life in a loving
Mary: and way that serves them and others well.
Mary: And I feel that God is the ultimate parent.
Mary: Like, God is showing us
Mary: and attempting to lovingly teach us
Mary: at every moment
Mary: how we can grow and take responsibility
Mary: and in that process grow towards him.
Geoff: Can I give an illustration perhaps?
Mary: Sure.
Jesus: It sort of suits the situation.
Jesus: Most parents give children gifts.
Jesus: Now, we might give a child a gift of let say,
Jesus: we give it a gift of a little matchbox car
Jesus: or something like that.
Jesus: Now if that child went out,
Jesus: grabbed the matchbox car,
Jesus: went out on the ground,
Jesus: put it on the ground,
Jesus: got out a baseball bat
Jesus: and bang, bang, bang, and bashed it into pieces,
Jesus: and then come back to the parent crying
Jesus: and saying "I want another matchbox car",
Jesus: the parent would probably very seriously consider
Jesus: whether it should give it a second matchbox car
Jesus: under those circumstances.
Jesus: Because the parent will be going,
Jesus: 'Well hang on a sec,
Jesus: you just went out and smashed up the matchbox car
Jesus: that I just gave you as a gift.
Jesus: How about you first sort out why you did that
Jesus: before I give you another one'.
Jesus: At least most parents would probably want to do that.
Jesus: And we, human kind has become like that child.
Jesus: We've become like a child
Jesus: who has received a whole series of gifts, right,
Jesus: and then in the process of receiving those series of gifts,
Jesus: have bashed them into smithereens
Jesus: and then went back to our parent pleading for it to get more.
Jesus: When the reality is that,
Jesus: that the parents got to say ,
Jesus: 'No, hang on a sec,
Jesus: let's work through the issue first
Jesus: of why you decided to smash everything up first
Jesus: and then we'll look at giving you some more'.
Mary: It's certainly not the case that
Mary: you never having any matchbox cars in punishment.
Mary: It's, it's the principle that in order to appreciate
Mary: and really enjoy the matchbox car, you have to love it.
Jesus: And we need to learn how to love you see.
Jesus: So, so, so what we need to do,
Jesus: is we need to start coming to terms with the fact
Jesus: that we are often being unloving
Jesus: and then blaming other people for our actions.
Jesus: And in particular, we're, we're adept at blaming God.
Jesus: And so what we finish up doing is we go,
Jesus: 'God's this or God's that or God's done this or God's done that'.
Jesus: When the reality is that human kind
Jesus: have made a lot of unloving choices.
Jesus: And as a result of making a lot of unloving choices
Jesus: have finished up becoming these people
Jesus: who then want somebody else to sort all of their unloving choices out.
Jesus: And, and God is always waiting for us to sort ourselves out
Jesus: and gives us lots and lots of help in doing so,
Jesus: as long as we are willing to go through that process of sorting things out.
Jesus: I'm sorry, I just a.
Mary: Just a few visitors.
Jesus: We've got a few visitors.
Mary: I think Igor's.
Jesus: Yeah, we'll, we'll just proceed here, because I want to proceed.
Jesus: None of the others have arranged anything with me, so that's fine.
Jesus: So, so what we need to do is separate the question as to God's existence
Jesus: from what's actually happening on the earth.
Jesus: Because what's happening on the earth,
Jesus: is the direct result of man-kind's desire to act out of harmony with love,
Jesus: with each other and with the environment.
Jesus: So let's separate the two.
Jesus: So let's now look at whether God exists or not.
Jesus: Now there is a simple test.
Jesus: And the simple test is this.
Jesus: If I have a longing to receive God's love
Jesus: and my longing to receive God's love is pure,
Jesus: in other words, it's not tainted by addiction
Jesus: or demand or anger or rage or fear or neediness,
Jesus: but it's actually a pure desire,
Jesus: and if I have this pure desire for God's love,
Jesus: then what will happen is I will receive it.
Jesus: And in the moment of receiving it,
Jesus: I will be able to prove God's existence or not
Jesus: as an individual being or not.
Jesus: If I then allow to go through my mind,
Jesus: God is not an individual being but a nebulous force,
Jesus: and then see whether I still feel the same emotion or not from God,
Jesus: then I'll know whether God is a nebulous force
Jesus: or an individual being or not.
Jesus: It'll be just a simple matter of connecting to God in each case.
Jesus: Perhaps we just need to pause.
Geoff: So you're not married?
Mary: No. No. Not yet. We might get married.
Geoff: Do you believe in marriage?
Jesus: It depends on how you view it
Jesus: because we were married once before.
Mary: Exactly. Like, we're not
Mary: and we both have the viewpoint that marriage
Mary: is a condition in your heart.
Jesus: And I've said to Mary that
Jesus: I don't know whether we will get married
Jesus: until we start confronting all of these religious view points of marriage.
Mary: Yeah.
Geoff: What about gay marriage, do you believe in gay marriage?
Jesus: Certainly.
Geoff: Certainly.
Mary: Yeah. Well it's the same concept, you know.
Mary: I feel that it's a condition in the person's heart.
Mary: Are you married?
Geoff: Yeah.
Mary: And does your wife share your passion
Mary: about God or matters relating to God?
Geoff: Oh no, not really, no, no.
Geoff: But we think fairly similarly. Yeah. Yeah. So.
Mary: But it's just a particular kind of interest of yours.
Geoff: Well, I had, I had more of an environment
Geoff: where I grew up in a church background.
Geoff: So, sort of like the difference between you and AJ.
Jesus: You know, AJ's got that biblical knowledge.
Mary: He's got the biblical knowledge.
Geoff: Because of his background.
Mary: But I would say, but we share the passion obviously.
Geoff: But you still have the same passion.
Mary: For God.
Jesus: Well, I suppose there's another thing.
Jesus: And that is, in the spirit world,
Jesus: you were never really involved
Jesus: very much in the biblical side of things.
Jesus: Like, where as I was, I was often like, Luke,
Jesus: more fascinated in, like, how,
Jesus: how it came about the modifications.
Mary: The bible and all of those things.
Jesus: Yeah. So, I've often took more of an interest in it.
Geoff: So do you think that some people get a head start on,
Geoff: on their understanding?
Geoff: Like, like, you had a realization when you were say eighteen,
Geoff: you said when in the first century.
Geoff: You knew you were different.
Geoff: What gave you the head start?
Geoff: What, what gave you that difference?
Geoff: Like, when I was fourteen for some reason,
Geoff: I decided to recite Desiderata.
Geoff: I have no idea why a fourteen year old would want,
Geoff: would be interested in Desiderata,
Geoff: which is a philosophical words of wisdom,
Geoff: that was actually written in the 1920's,
Geoff: not 1690's as written on the paper.
Geoff: Now, you know, I was different.
Geoff: What makes people different from, from?
Jesus: Well, God's given us all unique personality
Jesus: that is all a part of the appropriate way of.
Jesus: The way that God wants the universe to operate
Jesus: is that each of us fully engage our uniqueness.
Jesus: And in fully engaging our uniqueness,
Jesus: each of us will have a part to play in our universe that is unique.
Jesus: So, so the way God designed the universe
Jesus: was in such a way that each of us
Jesus: would be fully involved by actually embracing our unique individual passion
Jesus: and then following that passion with, with a passion. And.
Geoff: So, has this design worked?
Jesus: Yeah. Certainly.
Geoff: Ok. So there is no design fault?
Jesus: No. When. And, and it's interesting.
Jesus: The more developed in love you become,
Jesus: the more you realize there is no design fault.
Jesus: It's, it's only when we are operating
Jesus: out of harmony with the laws of love and the principles of truth,
Jesus: that we are butting our heads against the brick wall of God's laws.
Jesus: And in butting our heads against the brick wall of God's laws,
Jesus: we get bleeding sores on ourselves which is the result of our own,
Jesus: which is the result of our own stubbornness.
Geoff: But surely an, a, an almighty foreseeing omnipotent being
Geoff: would have known that that was going to happen?
Jesus: Of course, that's why she created such a universe that,
Jesus: that we would have feedback through the process of, of suffering.
Geoff: So I think a lot of people, they,
Geoff: they hear religious people talk about what God intended
Geoff: and, and they think 'Well, well wait a minute,
Geoff: that very phrase implies a mistake was made'.
Jesus: That's exactly right.
Geoff: It does.
Jesus: And the reality is that
Jesus: I don't believe that anything that is currently happening
Jesus: is not what, that, that God did not foresee it.
Jesus: Because all of God's laws are, are completely,
Jesus: not only beautiful in their operation,
Jesus: but are, are completely without fault if you examine them carefully.
Jesus: And in, in the beauty of the law,
Jesus: there is always a correction.
Jesus: And we are as humanity,
Jesus: we are going through this process of correction.
Jesus: Now anybody who goes through a process of correction
Jesus: is going to have emotional challenges,
Jesus: because they are going to want to hold onto their error inside of themselves.
Jesus: And, and, and so the universe at large
Jesus: is, is wanting them to have the corrected view point.
Jesus: And so what's going to happen
Jesus: is there's going to be discrepancy
Jesus: between their emotional condition or their error
Jesus: and the correct view point that's universal.
Jesus: And we're doing as a human race
Jesus: is we're often butting our heads against the correct view point,
Jesus: because we want to retain our error.
Jesus: We want to retain the false position
Jesus: or the position that's unloving
Jesus: and hope that God somehow
Jesus: comes to our unloving position, you know, our unloving position.
Jesus: And of course that's never going to happen.
Jesus: And so, with God, we're butting ourselves up against a brick wall basically.
Jesus: Now when I say a brick wall,
Jesus: I'm saying that all of God's laws are immoveable
Jesus: because they're all perfect
Jesus: and they don't need to be moved.
Jesus: And so what we need to do
Jesus: is come to see how we're out of harmony with those laws
Jesus: and once we get into harmony with these laws,
Jesus: what we find is that sort of supercharges our life.
Jesus: Because now we're bringing things into harmony with God's laws.
Jesus: All of God's laws are now working with us in our accomplishments,
Jesus: rather than working to correct us from our way wood path.
Jesus: And, and in the first century I gave many illustrations of this, you know.
Jesus: Even the, the whole illustration of the prodigal son,
Jesus: is all about the prodigal son
Jesus: coming up against the loving laws of God
Jesus: and, and then realizing down the track
Jesus: that he had, had transgressed against those laws.
Jesus: And, and then changed himself
Jesus: to a point where he now didn't want to do that anymore.
Jesus: He wanted to act more lovingly.
Jesus: And this is the problem the whole of the humanity faces really.
Jesus: Is to, is, are we going to continually
Jesus: butt ourselves up against the brick wall
Jesus: of, of these laws
Jesus: and, and then say
Jesus: 'God's at fault because I'm in pain
Jesus: because I've just butted these laws'.
Jesus: Or we're going to say
Jesus: 'Wow, I've got pain
Jesus: and a loving God's not going to create pain for me
Jesus: unless I'm in error somewhere that, that I'm, I’m actually'.
Mary: I'm creating.
Jesus: 'I'm creating it by butting my head against the wall'.
Jesus: It's a bit like us going up to a wall,
Jesus: butting our head against the wall
Jesus: and then complaining that the builder put the wall there.
Jesus: And that's what we do all the time with God.
Jesus: We, we go up to the wall,
Jesus: butt our heads against the wall,
Jesus: when it's bleeding, we say
Jesus: 'Oh, I'm suffering and I'm in pain, why did you put the wall there'?
Jesus: And we don't trust that actually God is a loving God
Jesus: and put every wall that is constructed in the universe,
Jesus: is constructed for a loving reason.
Jesus: And we don't trust that.
Mary: It's, it's like you referred to earlier about arrogance.
Mary: It's the major issue of humanity at the time
Mary: is saying 'I know what',
Mary: at this time I feel, is saying
Mary: 'I know what is loving
Mary: and therefore the wall is in error.
Mary: It takes a lot of humility, I feel,
Mary: to acknowledge that there is a loving God
Mary: who knows more about love than I do
Mary: and so if I'm against a wall,
Mary: perhaps the humble thing is to look at myself
Mary: and not at the wall.
Mary: I feel that, that with more humility,
Mary: people would find the path to God
Mary: much more intuitive and natural.
Mary: But it's this strong self-reliance
Mary: that is so instilled in so many of us,
Mary: that means that we don't even want to see that there's a wall. Yeah.
Jesus: By the time we get to be an adult,
Jesus: unfortunately what's happened to the majority of us,
Jesus: is we've lost a lot of the traits of a child.
Jesus: A lot of the traits of a child
Jesus: are to trust something until it's proven untrustworthy.
Jesus: As an adult, we don't trust anything until it's proven trustworthy.
Jesus: So, we take almost entirely the opposite tact as an adult
Jesus: than we would as a child.
Mary: Even as an adult, we see trust as a sign of weakness, don't we?
Jesus: Exactly.
Mary: Rather than saying 'No, I can discern things,
Mary: I can trust and then I can decide not to trust.
Mary: We, we feel that somehow.
Jesus: There's so much fear in it.
Mary: Yeah and often that is because
Mary: emotionally we've been invested in trusting something
Mary: rather than trusting something from a space of
Mary: not-investment, if you like. Yeah.
Jesus: So what, what we often doing is that we have, have;
Jesus: as an adult,
Jesus: we’ve reversed a lot of these child like traits
Jesus: that would assist us in,
Jesus: in coming to terms very rapidly as to whether there is a God,
Jesus: whether that God is a personal being or not,
Jesus: whether the God is just an energy source,
Jesus: and all of those questions would be very rapidly answered
Jesus: with some very simple tests.
Jesus: But unfortunately as adults,
Jesus: what we try to do is complicate our testing process
Jesus: because we think we're more intelligent than that
Jesus: and we believe it should be harder than it actually is.
Jesus: Whereas, if we, if we just thought as a child would think,
Jesus: a child would go, 'well', you know,
Jesus: and any child that's quite young would go 'my mummy and daddy'.
Jesus: They don't automatically assume mummy and daddy doesn't love them.
Jesus: They automatically assume mummy and daddy love them.
Jesus: So, why would not I automatically assume that God loves me,
Jesus: rather than coming from a perspective that God doesn't love me
Jesus: and then taking that as the primary assumption.
Jesus: So what I'm trying to get at
Jesus: is that we are often assuming things about God
Jesus: that prevent us from determining the truth about God.
Jesus: And then we're, we're using those assumptions as facts
Jesus: because we no longer have a connection with the God,
Jesus: that's impossible to have while we're making those assumptions.
Jesus: And, and, and this is where we're doing all things back to front.
Jesus: If we allow ourselves the,
Jesus: the possibility that God is a being that connects,
Jesus: that is our creator, like our mother or our father,
Jesus: that could connect to us in love,
Jesus: then it becomes a simple question -
Jesus: Well, if I'm not receiving that love
Jesus: or I don't feel loved by that God,
Jesus: then perhaps there's something going on inside of me
Jesus: that's preventing that love from flowing,
Jesus: rather than something inside of God.
Jesus: For most of us,
Jesus: what we do is we blame God for not loving us,
Jesus: when the reality is actually more along the lines
Jesus: that we need to look at ourselves
Jesus: as to why we're not feeling loved.
Jesus: Because the logical thing is that
Jesus: if there is a God that is our creator,
Jesus: then that God would surely love us.
Jesus: If the God was loving enough to create a beautiful body for us,
Jesus: a body that's focused on our receiving pleasure.
Jesus: You look at even the processes of
Jesus: eating, drinking, sexual behavior,
Jesus: all of these different things,
Jesus: the body itself that that God has created
Jesus: is all focused on trying to assist us
Jesus: to enjoy our life more passionately
Jesus: and have more joy and, and enjoyment of our life.
Jesus: And then to assume that God mustn’t be interested in our joy,
Jesus: is, is like, almost two totally opposite assumptions.
Jesus: And, and this is where I feel man-kind makes the basic primary mistake.
Jesus: In the first century,
Jesus: this is the reason, I,
Jesus: I feel why I was the first person to enter that condition
Jesus: is because instead of trying to get all this intellectual philosophy about God,
Jesus: I just started from a child's perspective of its parent,
Jesus: and just assumed that if I didn't,
Jesus: if I wasn't in this state where I felt loved,
Jesus: then it had to do with something that I believed,
Jesus: rather than something that God was.
Jesus: And, and I found through that process of that,
Jesus: just that simple one assumption,
Jesus: that not only did I have proven to me through that process God's existence,
Jesus: but I had proven to me what God's laws were.
Jesus: And, and I finished up receiving knowledge from that God
Jesus: of all these different things
Jesus: that the average person around me didn't receive,
Jesus: because they didn't have the same
Jesus: basic child like assumption right at the beginning.
Jesus: Which was that there is a God that loves me
Jesus: and is willing to tell me everything I want to know.
Geoff: Yep. So as, as your character achieved At-Onement,
Geoff: you discovered that killing was wrong, would you say?
Jesus: Oh, way before then.
Geoff: Way before. You don't believe in killing?
Jesus: Yeah. No. I, I discovered when I was eighteen or nineteen
Jesus: that killing, way before then.
Geoff: What about animals?
Jesus: Animals the same.
Jesus: When I, when I was thirteen years of age,
Jesus: my father in the first century took me to the temple.
Jesus: And there was blood from the animals
Jesus: squealing and carrying on with the slaughter,
Jesus: from so-called sacrifices to God.
Jesus: There was blood running down the sides of the streets
Jesus: from these animals that stunk to high heaven.
Jesus: And also had, I could just feel the fear of the animals.
Jesus: And immediately I became a, a vegetarian
Jesus: in the first century from that one thing.
Jesus: Because it just felt so unloving.
Jesus: I was totally disgusted with the whole operation of the temple at the time.
Geoff: So, so total non-violence to people and animals?
Jesus: Yes.
Mary: And that includes emotional violence.
Geoff: Emotional violence?
Mary: Do you understand what I mean by that?
Jesus: So in other words,
Jesus: there's no need for me to be angry with you.
Jesus: If I'm angry with you,
Jesus: there's something I need to address within me,
Jesus: no matter what you're doing.
Geoff: And non materialistic?
Jesus: No, we live in a materialist, we live in a material world,
Jesus: so I wouldn't call us non-materialist.
Jesus: I would say more along the lines of,
Jesus: we're more concerned about
Jesus: living in harmony with love with the material world.
Jesus: So in other words,
Jesus: we recognize the need of a material world
Jesus: for a material person to live in,
Jesus: we also recognize there is a spiritual world
Jesus: and soul based worlds as well.
Jesus: And, and for us we live in all of them concurrently,
Jesus: we talk to all of them concurrently and so forth.
Jesus: But, but living in the material world
Jesus: is a necessity for material people.
Jesus: But it needs to be done in a loving and,
Jesus: and harmonious manner.
Jesus: It can't be done in a way that destroys the environment
Jesus: and is non-sustainable.
Geoff: Your, your obviously not desiring wealth.
Jesus: No.
Geoff: That's, that's not one of your desires.
Geoff: A lot of people say
Geoff: 'Oh this guys trying to manipulate people
Geoff: so he can get donations from all over the world
Geoff: and he can fester his nest'.
Geoff: But it doesn't look apparent that you've.
Jesus: No. You know, I'm perfectly happy
Jesus: to receive millions of dollars of donations,
Jesus: but I'll probably spend them on furthering the.
Mary: The, the information, giving the information.
Jesus: This information.
Mary: That's, I would say eighty percent of,
Mary: of what we receive, would you say?
Jesus: More than that probably.
Mary: More than that goes into creating free DVD's,
Mary: travelling us to seminars.
Mary: And we cloth ourselves
Mary: and we feed ourselves vegan food in the process.
Jesus: Yeah, but we don't live extravagantly.
Geoff: You made a comment that you were tearing down your fences too.
Geoff: Which I found interesting because in one of the,
Geoff: in John Lennon's 'Imagine',
Geoff: I think he summed up three things
Geoff: that would help with world peace.
Geoff: And one was no borders
Geoff: and which is something that I think a lot of people would agree.
Jesus: Yeah, I believe strongly in no borders
Jesus: from a country perspective or an individual perspective.
Jesus: So, you know, one of the reasons why we're taking down the fences
Jesus: is we don't see any need to protect the, our location.
Jesus: But also we see fences as a way of control
Jesus: and we don't believe control is a very good way of developing love.
Geoff: And your also critical of religion
Geoff: because it does the same thing really.
Geoff: It has borders in your opinion,
Geoff: it is set up for control reasons.
Jesus: Yes, I'm, I'm perfectly happy to see, like,
Jesus: thousands of religions,
Jesus: as long as those religions practice natural love with each other.
Jesus: In other words they don't fight and bicker
Jesus: and blame each other and, and, and almost,
Jesus: well many in historically have murdered each other
Jesus: just because they had different belief systems.
Jesus: Now that's obviously out of harmony with love.
Jesus: So, so I'm perfectly happy for a whole set,
Jesus: a religion to have it's own desires and way of life,
Jesus: as long as those desires and way of life are actually in harmony with truth.
Geoff: So you're, you're probably a little bit disappointed with the,
Geoff: the religion that was created in your name?
Jesus: I don't know if you could say that I'm disappointed
Jesus: because I never created the religion for a start.
Jesus: So there are people who came long time after my life on earth
Jesus: who decided to create the religion.
Jesus: They had their own agendas at work.
Jesus: I wasn't surprised
Jesus: because with anything that's happened on the earth,
Jesus: it's usually gotten highly distorted
Jesus: through the amalgamation of religion and politics on the planet.
Geoff: So where has it got it right?
Geoff: Where has Christianity got it right?
Jesus: Well when it talks about grace, the grace of God,
Jesus: and when it talks about being loving to all persons on the planet,
Jesus: it's definitely got it right.
Jesus: When it talks about, you know, separation, and,
Jesus: and condemning certain people of certain race
Jesus: or certain sexuality or certain gender and all of those,
Jesus: then it's definitely got it wrong.
Mary: And I feel it's got it wrong around the area of
Mary: sacrifice meaning love and love meaning sacrifice,
Mary: which is a pretty core tenant
Mary: as far as I understand from the outside.
Mary: I've never been.
Geoff: Well it's the first quote
Geoff: that you get from the proselytizing Christian,
Geoff: is that Jesus died for your sins.
Jesus/Mary: Yes.
Jesus: Yeah. And that's not the truth.
Geoff: That's not the truth.
Jesus: No. And, and it can never be the truth
Jesus: because it's not fair
Jesus: and everything God does is fair.
Jesus: So it's not fair for a person who's never,
Jesus: who's been without sin
Jesus: or purportedly been without sin I should say,
Jesus: it's not fair for such a person
Jesus: to pay the penalties for all the sinners.
Jesus: It's like if you had three children of your own
Jesus: and two of the children were unruly radicals
Jesus: who basically were quite violent
Jesus: and the third child was peace loving
Jesus: and kind and considerate and compassionate,
Jesus: you wouldn't grab that compassionate, considerate third child
Jesus: and punish it for the deeds of the other two.
Jesus: And yet Christians are saying that's exactly what God's doing
Jesus: and it doesn't make any logical sense.
Jesus: Because it actually puts the average person on earth
Jesus: in a better condition of love that God is,
Jesus: if you believe what the Christians are saying.
Geoff: And so then it's these doctrines and these creeds
Geoff: that people have sworn allegiance to
Geoff: that are holding them in that place.
Jesus: Yes, but, but it's very important to understand
Jesus: that any doctrine or creed has only been created
Jesus: to support a certain emotional position.
Jesus: So, so for example,
Jesus: you would not be able to accept a belief inside of you
Jesus: unless there was some predisposition emotionally
Jesus: for you to accept such a belief.
Jesus: Now, if can illustrate that.
Jesus: If, if you believe that somehow
Jesus: a person who loves you also punishes you,
Jesus: then you will be open to a belief
Jesus: that God can love you and punish you at the same time.
Jesus: But if you didn't believe that a person
Jesus: who attempts to punish you loves you,
Jesus: then you wouldn't be able to accept
Jesus: that there would be a God
Jesus: who punishes you and loves you at the same time.
Jesus: It's just our emotional openness to certain belief systems
Jesus: that create and perpetrate those belief systems
Jesus: that are out of harmony with love.
Jesus: And what we need to do
Jesus: and this why it is important to talk about emotions,
Jesus: because what we need to do is we look at,
Jesus: we need to look instead; instead of going
Jesus: 'I want God to be a wrathful God',
Jesus: we need to say 'Well what is God really'?
Jesus: 'Is God a wrathful God?
Jesus: Because logically it would make sense to me
Jesus: that if God was wrathful God, we'd all be dead.
Jesus: Like, because sooner or latter
Jesus: all of us probably annoyed God at some point, right,
Jesus: and we'd all be dead.
Jesus: And if God was a wrathful God,
Jesus: it doesn't make much sense to me.
Jesus: But, but we need to say that rather than,
Jesus: rather than going 'I want God to be a wrathful God
Jesus: because I want God to punish all those people
Jesus: that I'm not allowed to punish'.
Jesus: And, and we need to stop imposing
Jesus: our own unhealed condition upon God
Jesus: and also imposing our unhealed condition
Jesus: upon other people on the planet.
Jesus: We need to start owning it, that,
Jesus: 'wow, yeah, I've got a really unloving emotion inside of me,
Jesus: which is I want other people to be punished
Jesus: for what they've done towards me'.
Jesus: And I need to heal that within me and stop that.
Jesus: I need to stop the concept.
Geoff: So what the, what is the best way for people to heal that emotion?
Geoff: Once they discover that they have this emotion,
Geoff: that, whether it was instilled by their parents
Geoff: or whether it was from a trauma as a child,
Geoff: how will they go about getting rid of that emotion?
Jesus: Well the simplest way is to firstly
Jesus: talk to God about the truth of it.
Jesus: In other words.
Geoff: What if they don't even know the truth of it?
Geoff: What if they were so young they're not able to process the truth of it?
Jesus: No, no. I'm not talking about the truth of the emotion
Jesus: in the way that you're thinking.
Jesus: I'm saying the truth of acknowledging what they really fell right now.
Geoff: Ok.
Jesus: So, so for example, if I really, really feel angry with Geoff right now,
Jesus: instead of me trying to make out that I'm not angry with Geoff,
Jesus: I need to own, 'I am angry with Geoff'.
Jesus: That's going to help me get one step further
Jesus: into getting closer to the emotion.
Jesus: And then I could ask myself,
Jesus: 'Well, why am I angry with Geoff'?
Jesus: 'I've only just met the man'.
Jesus: 'What's going on'?
Jesus: You know, like, like, 'what, what,
Jesus: what inside of me or what inside of him
Jesus: rubs me up the wrong way to cause me to feel this anger'.
Jesus: 'And I'm angry anyway, that's not his problem,
Jesus: it's my problem,
Jesus: so I need to look at what's going on inside of me that would cause me'.
Jesus: So I need to have some degree of self analysis,
Jesus: some degree of honest appraisement of my own condition
Jesus: before I'll be willing to honestly examine anything further.
Jesus: Once I can do that,
Jesus: I can start actually longing to God
Jesus: to show me what the error is.
Jesus: And whenever I’ve done that in my own life and
Jesus: Mary's had the same experience
Jesus: all through her two thousand years of life too,
Jesus: whenever we've done that of just longing to God to show us,
Jesus: within a few moments generally
Jesus: we're shown what the problem is.
Jesus: And usually it's a problem that comes from
Jesus: our own unhealed emotional state somewhere in our past
Jesus: or a belief system that's in us that's out of harmony with love.
Geoff: So you don't have this perfect harmonious relationship
Geoff: where you're forgiving all the time
Geoff: and so you have quarrels
Geoff: and arguments and a, or a you?
Mary: Well, we come from the premise.
Geoff: You sort things out?
Jesus: Once we became At-One with God
Jesus: after the first century in the spirit world.
Mary: Then no.
Jesus: Then we never had any arguments anymore.
Jesus: So we've had, like,
Jesus: if you look at our life of two thousand years,
Jesus: probably nineteen hundred years of it's been argument free. Right.
Jesus: But, but in the first century, before, when I met Mary.
Mary: Certainly.
Jesus: We certainly had disagreements and,
Jesus: and we had disagreements up to my time of passing.
Jesus: I, I didn't have any anger in them,
Jesus: but Mary sometimes did at the time.
Jesus: Because again I had a head start on Mary in the first century
Jesus: in terms of working my way through my own things.
Jesus: I met Mary when I was in my thirties in the first century,
Jesus: whereas I'd been working on my own condition
Jesus: since I was eighteen in the first century,
Jesus: or even earlier than that actually.
Jesus: So, so I had the chance to sort out a lot of myself.
Mary: And, ok, yep.
Jesus: At that time and Mary hadn't.
Mary: Yeah.
Jesus: And in this life it's very similar.
Jesus: So, so I feel more forgiving perhaps than,
Jesus: than Mary does at this point in time.
Jesus: But, but that being, we're basically both working progress.
Jesus: So there are times when we disagree with each other.
Geoff: So you were, you actually said that in,
Geoff: in one thing that I was watching,
Geoff: that Mary's death and her situation of a,
Geoff: on the earth was far more severe than your death.
Jesus: Yes.
Geoff: And a.
Jesus: I only took a few hours to die, about six hours to die.
Jesus: Whereas Mary, Mary took many days to die
Jesus: and was tortured in that time.
Mary: Three or four, I think.
Jesus: Yeah.
Geoff: Three or four.
Mary: Yep. Yep.
Geoff: And you have a memory of that now?
Mary: Yep. Yeah. I do.
Geoff: That must be fairly painful memory?
Mary: It is. And it's,
Mary: well it's probably something that started when I was fifteen.
Mary: And I found too perplexing and I filed it.
Mary: And now, yeah, now I'm more open to that emotional experience.
Mary: It’s quite, it's been terrifying,
Mary: traumatic, shocking and shameful.
Mary: All kinds of emotions that come with it. Yeah.
Mary: As with all our allowance of emotion however,
Mary: because I'm still afraid of that process,
Mary: I often allow it for a few days
Mary: and then I shut down in my fear.
Mary: Because, as you would possibly understand,
Mary: it's quite physiologically confusing as well.
Mary: And certainly this issue of resolving identity
Mary: is something that AJ has been through a long process really,
Mary: haven't you babe, of years
Mary: to come to a point where he can just speak openly,
Mary: clearly, freely about any aspect of it.
Mary: And for myself, I often.
Geoff: Have some difficulty.
Mary: Difficulty expressing.
Mary: And feels very personal
Mary: a lot of the emotions that I'm experiencing and,
Mary: and there's still this physiological struggle that I'm going through.
Mary: And it's not just an issue around the memories.
Mary: It's also,
Mary: I guess that's what I wanted to say earlier
Mary: when you were speaking to AJ about how he knows.
Mary: For myself, I feel I've reached a place of knowing
Mary: but I still rebel against that at times.
Mary: And it's not just that I know because of,
Mary: because I remember everything,
Mary: because at this stage I don't remember everything.
Mary: I remember fair portions of a lot of things,
Mary: but because I'm still in this process of opening myself emotionally,
Mary: I don’t remember everything.
Mary: But there is also the, the issue of.
Geoff: But you have no doubt whatsoever about?
Mary: About who I am.
Geoff: Where that memory comes from.
Mary: No. No.
Mary: And especially when I'm allowing,
Mary: allowing the memory, if you like.
Mary: And that's what I wanted to say earlier, is that.
Jesus: You’d prefer to have some doubt, wouldn’t you?
Mary: Yes. And we're speaking earlier about emotional investment in beliefs,
Mary: and I've searched myself high and wide and low to find my.
Jesus: An alternative.
Mary: What would be an emotional investment in this belief,
Mary: because honestly, and I can't find one.
Mary: But I feel that our certainty in life,
Mary: in, in any knowledge comes
Mary: when we’re willing to expose and
Mary: allow whatever emotion is associated
Mary: with whatever we’re being presented with.
Mary: I don’t know if you agree with that?
Mary: It's not a, I’ve never really verbalized that before but.
Mary: And so, like when these emotions first started happening for me,
Mary: I didn’t take that as proof that this was true.
Mary: And it certainly wasn’t a sudden download,
Mary: yes I know this to be truth.
Mary: It’s been a long process for me
Mary: and at times a struggle to,
Mary: to allow what is so overwhelmingly real for me.
Mary: And then to come out the end of it and realise what that means.
Mary: And also I’ve have felt I need to go through a process of discerning
Mary: what is actually happening.
Mary: Like, is this a spirit communication that’s happening for me
Mary: or is there some other childhood event
Mary: that I’m somehow now attaching to this emotional experience.
Mary: And, and I resolved some time ago that it wasn’t,
Mary: unless, unless I fully allowed the emotional experience,
Mary: with an openness to what,
Mary: to what the truth may be,
Mary: not an attachment to what it is,
Mary: that I would come to truth
Mary: and it would be a process
Mary: and not a single event that would
Mary: that would bring me to a firm conclusion.
Mary: And that’s certainly what has happened and is happening.
Jesus: And that’s also what happened for me to.
Jesus: Like obviously, because I begun the process
Jesus: much earlier than Mary has,
Jesus: I’ve had a lot more time in that process.
Jesus: And so therefore, I have a larger degree,
Jesus: you know, I have a degree of certainty.
Jesus: I have a certainty now.
Mary: You’re certain and you’re articulate.
Jesus: Yeah. Whereas,
Jesus: whereas if you asked me sort of five or six years ago
Jesus: when I was in the beginning of that process,
Jesus: then you know, there were times when I went,
Jesus: cycled in the same manner that Mary has done in the past, you know.
Mary: And there’s been many times when I’ve just gone
Mary: ‘No, this, this can’t be the truth and it seems so bizarre and so’.
Jesus: And fear is usually those times.
Jesus: It’s usually because we’re.
Jesus: Like in my case, when I was,
Jesus: when I was afraid of what other people would think of me,
Jesus: and I was afraid of what they’d say,
Jesus: and I was afraid of being attacked,
Jesus: and I was afraid of you know, being treated badly by my family,
Jesus: and so forth,
Jesus: you know, then I preferred to not,
Jesus: to not say anything about who I am,
Jesus: and you know, I decided,
Jesus: I went through a period of time and decided
Jesus: I just want to live alone in the woods somewhere
Jesus: and just leave the whole issue alone, you know.
Mary: And that has really been my desire.
Mary: Like, ‘babe, I’m ok, I love this path, it’s wonderful,
Mary: can we talk to everyone about this, what we,
Mary: about God and how to connect to God and yourself,
Mary: but could we just not talk about who we are’.
Mary: And a little while ago,
Mary: I realized that there’s an issue of truth involved, you know.
Mary: How am I being honest with you
Mary: if I sit and tell you all those things
Mary: and guard this belief that I have inside of me from you.
Mary: Immediately I’m setting up a sense of dishonesty about who I am
Mary: and so this is really what has made me
Mary: take the step to be more public about my experience.
Mary: Because certainly I’ve had a lot of fear about that as well.
Mary: And a fear that maybe I can’t trust myself.
Mary: And AJ certainly not reassuring.
Mary: He’s like, 'no you’ve got to trust yourself'.
Jesus: Yeah, I don’t. I don't feed.
Jesus: See a lot of people believe that,
Jesus: that I somehow feed Mary all of these things
Jesus: and then Mary has to believe that to be with me.
Jesus: It’s actually quite the opposite.
Mary: Yeah, no.
Jesus: Like, Mary’s had to go through her own experience,
Jesus: and every time she tries to involve me in it,
Jesus: I say 'Babe, it’s your experience,
Jesus: you’ve got to work your way through,
Jesus: you know, who you are'.
Jesus: 'I don’t have to work my way through you are'.
Jesus: 'I already think I know who you are,
Jesus: like I already feel who you are'.
Jesus: 'You’ve got to work through that'.
Jesus: And so for that reason, it’s quite a,
Jesus: it's quite a personal experience until, until.
Jesus: And the more you embrace that personal experience,
Jesus: the closer you get to the truth,
Jesus: like, whatever the truth is, even if it’s not.
Jesus: And you know, if we, if we weren’t Mary and Jesus,
Jesus: then that truth would become exposed through this process.
Mary: And, and I feel, I believe that very strongly.
Mary: And I said to someone recently,
Mary: you know, really I’m living in integrity in what I believe.
Mary: And I’m very conscious of what is love and,
Mary: and where I’m in error around love.
Mary: I’m speaking as honestly and openly as,
Mary: as my soul allows right now.
Mary: If at some time, and I can’t imagine,
Mary: but if at some time in the future it became revealed,
Mary: like, it, it was exposed to me through my own experience or,
Mary: through yeah, through my own experience that I’m not Mary Magdalene,
Mary: I would spend double the amount of time
Mary: that I’ve spent speaking to people about that fact,
Mary: to correct that error.
Mary: Because I have no desire to be someone that I’m not
Mary: and I’ve no desire to mislead people about that.
Mary: So I, I take it very seriously
Mary: and because I feel it’s an issue of love,
Mary: just as my being open with you about what I feel is an issue of love,
Mary: if I then felt something else and I’d mislead you or
Mary: I'd communicated with you in a way that wasn’t true,
Mary: I’d really want you to, to learn about that.
Mary: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if I’m articulating that well, but.
Geoff: No. No, that’s good.
Geoff: All right, well thank you very much.
Geoff: We could probably go on forever.
Geoff: We’ll have to stop at some stage.
Geoff: Well thank you very much for just for the benefit of the,
Geoff: the tape there.
Geoff: You two don’t know me from a bar of soap.
Jesus: No. No.
Geoff: This is not something you set up.
Jesus/Mary: No.
Geoff: I’ve come out of my own interest and fascination with you.
Geoff: And you’ve welcomed me into your compound,
Geoff: which doesn’t look much like a compound.
Geoff: And you’ve fed me lunch.
Geoff: And you’re very.
Geoff: I’m very much appreciative. So thanks very much.
Jesus: Thanks Geoff.
Mary: Thank you Geoff. It’s lovely to meet you
Mary: and I’m glad that we took the opportunity to get to know you as well.
Jesus: Yeah, we, we like catching up with all new faces, hey.
Jesus: And, and we don’t feel much fear about doing so generally.
Jesus: So, yeah we enjoy the process of.
Geoff: I could have been an axe wielding murderer, you never know.
Mary: Well, I.
Geoff: You trust it.
Mary: Trusted. And I trusted also my feelings from your emails, so.
Jesus: Yeah. We, we don’t. We sort of feel like we,
Jesus: we feel that we can fairly easily feel people’s real condition and,
Jesus: and so therefore we feel there’s not much to fear,
Jesus: you know what I mean.
Geoff: I’m not really that scary.
Jesus: No. No.
Jesus: No. And even when we’ve had others come to do interviews,
Jesus: we have a, you know,
Jesus: we can still feel their condition and what they’re intent is.
Jesus: And, and the way we see the interview process
Jesus: is that we’re happy to give an interview.
Jesus: And what the person does with that interview is totally up to them.
Jesus: Like, we, we don’t have any control of it.
Jesus: As you can see we now record it as well.
Jesus: And that’s only for our own record sake.
Jesus: Because what we’ve found in the past
Jesus: is we’ve made an agreement with many interviewers
Jesus: and then they’ve reneged on that agreement
Jesus: to provide us with the actual raw footage of the interview.
Mary: It’s also about having a historical record of,
Mary: of who we are and where we’re at right now.
Mary: Like, we’re starting to be prompted and realised
Mary: that perhaps that’s worth us keeping a record of as well.
Mary: And so, yeah.
Jesus: That’s what we’re doing, yeah.
Jesus: It was good to meet you my friend.
Geoff: Yep. You too.
Jesus: You’re welcome to come out any time you want.
Geoff: Thank you very much. I might just take you up on that offer.