Leben ohne Geld - SWR Nachtcafé (23.09.2011)

Uploaded by forwardtheevolution on 04.10.2011

Good evening, welcome to the Nachtcafe here in the castle Favorit in Ludwigsburg
Thank you!
the Euro is weak and everybody is shaking, the crisis of our currency is showing us quiet plainly
money is not only dominating our world economy, but more than ever our lifes and worries of each one of us.
No question, money is important, but did it become maybe too important?
Do we almost put wealth on a level with bliss and does it consequently mean without money no honey?
If we today talk about the overwhelming power of money one will realize that no area of life is left out
even when it comes to supposingly affairs of the heart.
How important is money if one wants to be happy on this earth, about this I will discuss now with the poor, the rich and the experienced ones.
His father always thougth he will never be successful, but he misjudged him
and Hans Wall became after being a bad student a successful business man and millionaire.
Cornelia Zahrt became together with her husband and their successful real estate company rich
but than her life changed drastically through the bankrupt of their company and the sudden death of her husband
Today the mother of four children knows that living on the edge of poverty is her destiny
Thomas Baekmann loves the world of the rich, he inherited millions and than started earning his own money by working hard
recently he started his own luxury shop in Bad Pyrmont, according to him the Monte Carlo of the North
Professor Thomas Druyen inspected as a scientist of the culture of wealth the world of the rich.
One of his cognition is that money is today the only functioning godhead.
Raphael does not want to pay homage to this godhead, he traveled completely without money from Europe to Mexico.
Now he wants to continue his life entirely without this filthy lucre.
Rosalie van Bremen was 15 years the spouse of Alan Delon and meanwhile she knows what is important during a divorce
after the end of a relation with a French millionaire she knew how to set the course for a continuing life on the sunny side.
Alexander Hagelueken is responsible for the money part of the "Sueddeutsche Zeitung"
he founds the exaggerated importance of money and the bad distribution of it is thought-provoking. Its time to rethink.
Lets see which process we will put in train today.
I first want to ask Professor Druyen: No cash no bash is the title of our talk show today, so lets turn this phrase around
with cash is bash, does that mean that wealth is the base of earthly bliss?
I can definitely deny this, because we absorb us with the billionaires, thus the extremely materialistic wealthy ones
and the guarantee that being rich means being happy is not a fact. The contrary is not the case
there are other problems arising, psychological problems.
Raphael Fellmer, you think nothing of money, you want to life without money. What is wrong about money?
I believe money itself is not so bad, but rather what we make out of it, that we manipulate our self through money
I think we can not work and live so much with our heart when we think too much about money.
Families, marriages, friendship and work relations get destroyed because of money, real estate and materialism
in general and I further believe our relation with nature as well.
And money is responsible for all this?
I would not say it like that, but i consider it a big burden in the relation human being with nature
humans between humans and human with one self.
Raphael is it not a motivation for you to ascend on a material level, like Mr. Wall who had this engine?
I think the general motivation has changed, not only in me, but also in Mr. Wall
Money had already 30, 40 years ago a high value in society and still has, but we understand always more that money
is not only something which enriches one on a materialistic egoistic scale which brings personal comfort
but more and more people understand that becoming rich means that somebody is suffering because of it
may it be nature, humans or animals. And I believe that there is a change of mind going on
which is constantly growing and not only happing in me
Everyone no matter weather rich or poor who had human experience is wealthy
and I think most of the rich should focus on this value and shift from being materialistically rich towards a intangible richness.
On this occasion one can see that Raphael is for me rich in human experience,
he has no money at all, but he embarked on an adventure to life a different concept of life from which we
will still hear. This makes him in my eyes to someone who has extreme force in a positive way over his own life.
Raphael, that you are rich you never heard before?
We have to learn more about you, first of all lets ask how did you got here to Ludwigsburg today?
I got here hitchhiking, that is how I normally travel on long distances.
Thanks to lovely people who shared their car with my friend Mario and me we made it from Berlin to here
How long did it took you to get here?
In total it took us almost 12 hours, we got already up at 4am so the editorial staff of Nachtcafe could be
free of fear and relaxed about our arrival.
Because we wanted that you are punctual and not waiting somewhere in the middle of nowhere on the roadside.
Exactly, therefore we woke up early to not create any stress and indeed we got here on time.
We have to explain that your ambition is to live without money.
And we have to add that every guest gets a small honorarium, but you not even wanted our money
you are a wonderful guest and charming.
And you a lovely moderator.
I have to ask, how did this idea of living without money was born?
While I was studying in The Netherlands, together with two friends we had the idea to travel with the
lowest carbon footprint possible to Mexico. We had an organisation which aim was to raise ecological awareness
intercultural exchange, and to encourage people to look beyond their own immediate concerns
and how each one of us can harm our planet less.
So to Mexico easily without money?
Yes, there is the possibility to simply fly or to take a cruise which takes about 2-3 weeks
But why Mexico, if one wants to harm the environment less than its better to stay home?
That is right.
I do not want to be mean.
You are right, local vacations by bicycle or walking is perfect
I also belief we dont have to go to Spain to walk the St. James Way.
There are wonderful ways in Germany, but we went to Mexico because of two marriages of friends since I have been already in Mexico.
If it were up to you we would not yet have discovered America.
So you wanted to go to Mexico also because of the Climate Change Conference, thus it had a highly symbolic value as well.
By airplane it takes about 8h, 9h?
10h, but it depends from where you departure in Europe
So how long it took you to get there?
mhhhh so ... 11 month ... but we really traveled everything over land
So one can not have scarcity of time in this case.
No, but I guess to have time means to be wealthy and in fact it is the most beautiful thing to have time
since time is priceless
And I belief that taking your time for what is important for oneself is crucial
In this case we actually did not just want to get to Mexico, but to explore everything what lays in between.
The Ocean, since we hitchhiked on a sailing boat
How did you actually do it? You started in The Netherlands and than?
We had a small solar backpack to charge the cameras since we wanted to everything the most sustainable as possible
to use the energy of the sun and to be flexible.
We than started to wait for a ride on the street and little by little we went through Holland, Belgium, France, Spain
Hitchhiking? - Yes, everything hitch hiking and we were fast in order to get to the south since we started in January 2010
So were did you arrived? Arrived where? In Africa?
We than went from Spain in a truck inside a ferry to Morocco. One goal during the journey was to not spend or accept any money
since each ferry ticket includes two drivers per truck we could also get to Africa for free
Where did you went?
To Tanger, Morocco and than we continued down until West-Sahara, occupied territory by Morocco
There we tried to find a way to get to the Canary Islands.
What did you eat and how and where did you slept during the voyage?
During the entire journey we tried to recycle food as much as we could, and I am still doing it today
We slept wherever we could e.g. at the fire department, on the beach, in garages, on the roof, schools, kindergardens
and on the street. We where really flexible, so as well in and below trucks, in the nature in hammocks.
And you always found a boat who gave you a ride?
Yes, but the most difficult part was to find in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria a sailing boat which goes to the other side of the ocean.
It takes not only 2-3 days, but 2-3 weeks and we were 3 men and on the sea there was no option to drop us somewhere.
So you worked also on board?
Yes thats correct.
So this is also a means of exchange.
Yes, but I never said anything against means of exchange.
He has nothing against work, even after 4pm.
Because it is not possible to be 3 weeks lazy on a sailing boat without doing anything.
Actually there is not so much to do, because once the sails are set the
wind blows always from the same direction and I dont know whom of you did already an Atlantic crossing, it is marvelous and
I can only highly recommend it to everybody. There is this constant noise of the wind and you not have to do much except
for watching out for boats or obstacles
We were sometimes even laying in the life boat filled with sea water.
For the rest of the day we were sun bathing, reading, writing our dairy, cooking, cleaning
and helping wherever we could but did not had to climb up and down the whole day.
Now seriously I have to ask you, was it really completly without any use of money, not even a cent?
We wanted to do it entirely without any money, but as an organisation we decided before hand that in case of emergency
or when we would have problems e.g. at the borders we would use money.
After 11 month and this small payments you really made it to Mexico and the excitement was huge!
Yes and in total more than 500 different vehicles gave us a ride
and because only thanks to all this lovely people who opened their heart for us we called the journey as well
the journey of humanity since they made it possible!
What was the experience you gain from this long journey without money, what did one learn from and with the people?
I can only recommend it to everybody, life is out there, the school of life is waiting
and every fellow men and women is a human with light in his heart. A human who loves to do good!
And there are actually no exceptions, one only has to look for the good in in order to let the other live it.
Sometimes we just have to ask, like a grandmother who wants to cross the street, she can stand there for a long time
until someone will ask her if she needs help, but if she would ask probably everybody would say yes and help her.
The same is true if one ask their neighbour if they could help to carry something, they would do it with pleasure
but we dont ask anymore in our isolated money society where we believe we can fix everything with cash.
So we call the plumber or a prostitute but I believe we can actually not buy everything with money.
Love, health and luck one cannot buy.
The question is only if it works, since you want to continue to live like that and we have to add that you became
father recently. The responsibility is growing and she is still so little, how old is she now?
Alma Lucia came 2 weeks and 2 days ago to the world.
Young man, now one has responsibility, now a different life will start.
I have now even more responsibility than before.
And you still want to continue your life without money?
I want to continue but we agreed now on a compromise that I will get health insurance, I was not insured until now
and therefore Alma Lucia and my girl friend, who wants to be insured, will be insured and we will
use the child benefit for Alma Lucia to pay for it.
Thats the beginning ...
Yes but this is a compromise which I like to take.
You life right now by Berlin and from what do you live on now?
We live in Germany in a affluent society, meaning that not only here, but worldwide we through away over 1/3 of all food.
And on the other hand every 4 second a human loses his life because of starvation in Africa and Asia.
So I believe that we should all reduce our damage, the exploitation of resources and stop wasting.
Therefore I dumpster everything possible from organic markets, because also they throw a lot of food away.
Dumpster diving but only from organic stores.
Yes because I think every person deserves good organic food or bio dynamic farming and if possible from the own garden
free of pesticides and chemicals.
But Mr. Wall if we would all do it like that than the bins would be soon empty.
Yes and where would all the employment come from?
Mr. Hageluecken, what kind of conclusions do we draw from this insight?
It is has its charm, but we all think for our selfs when does Raphael gonna make the next compromise
and that he will not be able to stay the course anyway.
But I believe that it is not important at all, if he will continue or not.
I am delighted what he founds on this journey, to find other means to progress and to do things.
Who helpful humans are, to open ones heart and to ask people for help is something which could be for
every ones daily life enriching.
Could you live like that with dumpster diving and so on?
I have to say that Raphael is a really successful human, you succeed in what you are doing and
one has to be very smart, intelligent and prudent to
The potential enemies are really clever, they embrace you.
I think we are all friends, brothers and sisters.
What you mentioned that every minute someone dies, that we live in abundance and throw away food etc.
When I told my son, Alan Junior, that he always has to eat everything from the plate
he said he does not feel like or something, than I respond that in Africa children are dying.
He said then, Mom get an envelope and we mail the leftovers to Africa. That was his idea.
But you are doing it even much better.
I think that the approach of your son to think about how he can help the children in Africa is correct
but we are when we go into the supermarket responsible for the food waste
because the supermarket acts since we chose the butter with the longest shelf-life and the tomato who still
looks the most beautiful. Often these are products who are coming from these countries.
I know this.
Is it not a bit exotic, the flat is from a friend, he is doing a little bit of gardening work or a bit more
but finally he is borne by society.
I just said that I believe he is affluent.
You already said this.
I will answer your question by explaining what I mean with affluent.
What he is doing is not really multipliable for the masses, most people would be incapable of doing it
because it is complicated. Its obvious that we have a young intelligent man having here with us - without any doubt.
But he found the two most important assets in our society, the asset of the other, because without the others we can not
survive even one day and he found the crucial asset for an existence and biography, which is the creation of meaning
and sense. He has so much meaningfulness and sense in his life that he can find even his food in the Dumpsters.
Therefore I think what he is doing it is not a concept to save the world, but it is a concept for everyone
weather rich or poor, how to deal with ones own life.
Therefore he is for me much more an example than every politician I know.
I have to add something. I believe we all have to take more responsibility for our fellow human beings and the planet.
For example we life in a society which is addicted to growth, more employment, faster, bigger and so forth.
But we have to remember that we are 7 billion humans and that how we live right now here in Germany, all of us, including me
and I try to consume as less as possible, we can not continue like that!
We all have to start seriously to think global and act local from our heart.
And we have to realize that (economical) growth is not a possibility and neither a solution for us nor the planet.
Until the next Nachtcafe in one week.
Thanks for watching and if someone wants to help correcting the English please write to enarmoniamundo@gmail.com