What Classic Car Would You Crush? -- ROAD TESTAMENT

Uploaded by drive on 19.04.2012

MIKE SPINELLI: Hey, welcome to Road Testament.
I'm Mike Spinelli.
We've got Leo Parente back in the passenger seat, I guess.
LEO PARENTE: Or back like a bad burrito.
LEO PARENTE: Ah, there goes the Mexican crowd.
Hit us up at @Drive on Twitter.
LEO PARENTE: Not about that joke.
And subscribe there.
And subscribe to us on YouTube, but also on Twitter.
Because we can ask you questions like the one we're
going to be addressing today.
What do you think of that?
LEO PARENTE: I think I need to know what you asked them.
So here's the thing.
We saw the premiere of that show, the Richard Hammond show
Crash Course on BBC America.
LEO PARENTE: Only watch TV with short people, so
Richard's on my list.
MIKE SPINELLI: So he's learning to drive different
kinds of things in America.
He's going across America doing all that stuff.
LEO PARENTE: OK, I get it, I get it, I get it.
MIKE SPINELLI: This year, he did the A-1 Abrams tank.
LEO PARENTE: Learned how to drive the tank.
MIKE SPINELLI: Learned how to drive the tank.
And part of the thing he had to do was learn how to follow
instructions from his tank commander.
LEO PARENTE: Well, that's the military.
Military-- take orders.
Take orders.
LEO PARENTE: Don't think, do.
MIKE SPINELLI: Chain of command, exactly.
So they put him out on this course, and he had to do
certain things, like crush a few classic cars.
Like this here 1979 Porsche.
LEO PARENTE: Did I miss this?
Was this already on TV?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, it was Monday.
So anyway.
So he crushed this--
LEO PARENTE: Porsche 928.
MIKE SPINELLI: 928, yeah, exactly.
LEO PARENTE: Some Porsche people may say it was good.
So he was not happy about it, but the whole point was to
follow instructions.
He also crushed a probably '67 or '68--
LEO PARENTE: Oh, this probably hurt him.
Right, because he's into the Mustangs and
all that stuff, right?
And Maxwell Moore, he crushed a '70 Chevelle.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, it looks like a four-door.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's a four-door, so who cares?
Right, exactly.
But it got me thinking.
It got me thinking about--
you know, the metaphor of crushing an old classic car is
out with the past and in with the future.
And as car guys, last Road Testament show, when Alex Roy
was on, we were talking about remaking cars of the past--
MIKE SPINELLI: Out of nostalgia.
LEO PARENTE: Because you love nostalgia?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, the problem is--
I mean, I've kind of had it up to here with nostalgia.
I think we need to move forward in the auto industry.
LEO PARENTE: We need to crush nostalgia.
MIKE SPINELLI: Crush nostalgia.
LEO PARENTE: Retro needs to be pummeled with-- how many tons
was that tank, do you think?
The official count was many.
So what are we doing today?
So I threw it out to the DRIVE Twitter audience.
Thank you.
And we got one from Adam Jordison.
"@DRIVE must crush a '68 Camaro.
I'm tired of seeing them at car shows, doesn't mean I
don't like them."
Adam makes a good point.
This is 40 years ago.
So we've been worshiping the pony car and muscle car for so
long, I kind of get that we're maybe getting burned out.
LEO PARENTE: I'm with Adam.
I mean, I know everyone loves the new Camaro shape, but it's
the old Camaro shape.
I'm ready to crush.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, speaking of that, let's see what-- you
and I have been talking about this--
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, yeah, we chat about this.
MIKE SPINELLI: And what we would crush,
metaphorically, of course.
LEO PARENTE: What would I crush?
LEO PARENTE: Well, what I wouldn't
crush are Chinese students.
Not funny.
Here's what I'd crush, and you're going to
hate this one, too--
I want to crush Corvette.
I'll tell you why I want to crush Corvette.
Because it hasn't changed forever.
This is some mid '70s Pace Car edition with the tape stripes.
The most current 427 anniversary
Corvette has tape stripes.
The car still represents the same old mindset and
I'm tired.
I want Corvette to be something new.
And if it can't be, I'm willing to crush it.
All right.
LEO PARENTE: What have you got?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, I've got one.
This is going to piss a lot of people off.
LEO PARENTE: Apparently, that's what
we're here for today.
MIKE SPINELLI: And that's kind of why we're here today.
LEO PARENTE: I believe in this crush.
What do you believe?
MIKE SPINELLI: Bye-bye, Bullitt.
Eliminate this.
I am so tired.
I mean, granted--
you know, Bullitt was not a very good movie.
Steve McQueen, supremely cool guy, did Le Mans, did a lot of
other much cooler things.
This car chase was cool the first 5,000 times
we saw it on YouTube.
Just get rid of this.
Get rid of this, I mean, you know.
Get rid of the Mustang.
Get rid of the torque thrust wheels.
Get rid of the--
LEO PARENTE: Leave it where it is, back in history.
MIKE SPINELLI: Back in history.
LEO PARENTE: Remember Ford took the dead Steve McQueen
and put it into a commercial in Europe.
LEO PARENTE: I loved it, but then was then, right?
MIKE SPINELLI: I'm so done with the whole Bullitt
worship, I just think that car,
metaphorically, should be crushed.
LEO PARENTE: So if we haven't started your thinking of what
to crush with those two, whatever.
What else we got here?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, the reason why we started talking
about-- and actually, we have a broader point to make,
right, obviously?
LEO PARENTE: We're going to go deep.
Hey, I knew I wore a tie for something.
So the crushing, metaphorically, has to do with
a report this week that came out from Wall Street Journal
that Ford was going to go to a new design for Mustang, move
away from the retro stuff.
MIKE SPINELLI: So let's take a look at what the latest
Mustang is.
So there's the Boss 302.
By the way, a car we both drove and both
loved, I mean, supremely.
This is probably the best American sports car that they
make right now.
LEO PARENTE: And I guess we're going to get into the
discussion of what defines retro a little bit.
LEO PARENTE: But that was how the car drove.
And it didn't drive like an old Bullitt Mustang.
It drove like a contemporary car.
MIKE SPINELLI: It drove nothing like an old Mustang.
LEO PARENTE: But it looks--
I mean, this is the Parnelli Jones throwback
graphics for 2013.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, right.
LEO PARENTE: Oh my god, history.
MIKE SPINELLI: Speaking of throwback, I mean, let's go
back to the very beginning, right?
With Lee Iacocca.
Look at the Falcon.
So granted, Mustang was a very forward-thinking car
when it came out.
It didn't look like a Model A, right?
I mean, next to the Falcon, it actually looked very, very
modern, right?
LEO PARENTE: And different for the time,
is what you're saying.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, different for the time.
Look at that.
Like the fastback, in 1964 and 1965 and '66, I mean this
was-- it was modern.
It was modernist.
LEO PARENTE: It made Plymouth do a Barracuda fastback.
It introduced something new, I think, is the point you're
trying to make.
Now we're not going to go through every generation, but
I do want to move on to something else, something that
you kind of remember.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, go ahead.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, the Mustang II.
A fantastic Pinto.
MIKE SPINELLI: Everybody dogs on the Mustang II.
LEO PARENTE: How can you not?
This is the King Cobra, OK?
The answer here was more cowbell.
The answer was more tape stripe and more air dam
spoilers and under-tired and wow.
But the Mustang II outsold the last couple years of the
previous Mustang.
MIKE SPINELLI: And three of the top 10 selling Mustang
years of all time were Mustang IIs.
So go fuel crisis, and go fact that Chevy had a Monza.
Oh my god.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, yeah.
It was the car for the times.
Next, though.
LEO PARENTE: But it looked like and old Mustang.
LEO PARENTE: Hey, now.
My company car.
Your company car.
This is a terrible shot.
I wish we had a better shot.

The next one, the fox body Mustang, was the one that I
sort of grew up lusting after.
And that was the one.
LEO PARENTE: And literally, when I worked for Ford, I had
one of those as a company car for a little bit.
LEO PARENTE: Turbo four.
LEO PARENTE: Progressive.
MIKE SPINELLI: I sort of came of age pre-Civic.
I'm just saying.
LEO PARENTE: I don't want to hear any sexual stories.
MIKE SPINELLI: You're not going to hear--
they weren't that good.
LEO PARENTE: The back seat was not that big.
MIKE SPINELLI: But before the Civic, like, the minutes
before the Civic became a performance car, it was all
about the fox body.
And I wanted to show the SVO because it proves that, at
some point, Ford and--
when they were thinking about the Mustang model, they were
thinking forward.
This was a very forward-thinking car.
It was 200 and something horsepower of 4-cylinder turbo
when everybody else was struggling to get their eights
to that level.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, and they weren't trying to do fuel
economy per se.
They were talking about technology.
So it was a turbo four.
Coincidentally, they were running a turbo four in the
IMSA GTP car at the time.
It had the European double-wing rear.
It was all about lighter weight and chassis and a ride
and handling dynamic different than the classic,
traditional pony car.
So yeah, even though Ford had its classic heritage, they
were trying to think ahead.
LEO PARENTE: And then they sold 1,200 of
them and stopped that.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, right.
I mean, again, we get to the point where, yes, they did
this technology play.
LEO PARENTE: But honestly, this car was a ball to drive.
It was quick.
It was light.
It wasn't on the nose.
It was a good car.
And I think it means that Ford can go back here and start
thinking about Mustang as a forward-thinking product.
LEO PARENTE: And see, I'm going to just
drop a little opinion.
I think Ford is a progressive company.
But I think these companies get hamstrung when they start
to play with heritage.
And they are so fearful of changing that tradition.
I think that's part of Corvette's
problem, quite frankly.
And I hope it's not going to be Mustang's problem.
So let's go to the next one.
This is what happened next.
LEO PARENTE: Hey, C scoops on the side.
It must be a Mustang.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, wake me when it's over.
MIKE SPINELLI: And then we're back to the Boss.
LEO PARENTE: There we go.
MIKE SPINELLI: And just to reiterate that Ford isn't the
only one that fell into the retro trap.
LEO PARENTE: Who hasn't?
There we go.
MIKE SPINELLI: I still like this.
The '69 Camaro is still hot.
LEO PARENTE: And here's an interesting snark.
That's Ed Welburn's Camaro.
Ed Welburn is the head of GM design.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, exactly.
LEO PARENTE: So they love living in their history.
Apparently except for the bankruptcy history.
They're ignoring those years like the
Germans ignore the '40s.
Oh, OK.
LEO PARENTE: Old Camaro, same Camaro, blah, blah, blah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, so now we've got to go into the
reasons, talk a little bit about why
the retro thing happened.
Max, next one.
So what does this show?
Everyone stay in your seats.
MIKE SPINELLI: This is not a Jenga game gone pear-shaped.
LEO PARENTE: Or your economics class.
This is baby boomers.
These are--
LEO PARENTE: So we're the red.
MIKE SPINELLI: So 1946 to 1964, 70 million people were
born during those years.
These are the baby boomers.
So the oldest ones are in their 60s.
The youngest still in their--
that would be--
LEO PARENTE: Whatever.
MIKE SPINELLI: Their late 40s.
LEO PARENTE: How about the point is X car executive says,
this bubble here is why retrofit exists in the
automobile industry.
LEO PARENTE: Because they figure we haven't lived beyond
1988 anyway, so we'll love this throwback stuff.
That bubble is moving.
The bubble is dying.
We're dying.
MIKE SPINELLI: So I mean the Mustang--

born in '48, you were driving a Mustang in '64.
Because they sold billions of them.
LEO PARENTE: And now you're buying the retro Mustang as
your last car.
So now you have Gen X, right?
So we 40 million--
70 million-- this is 40 million.
MIKE SPINELLI: Just kind of a useless--
LEO PARENTE: And by the way, right around here,
congratulations, Trojans condom.
If you bought stock around here, you made a
lot of money here.
I mean, just a terrible time to be born in terms of having
the power of your generation behind you in purchasing.
LEO PARENTE: And apparently no one here knew how to get laid.
No, that's not true.
MIKE SPINELLI: They knew how to get laid.
They just didn't know how to get pregnant, apparently.
The point is?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, the point is that these people had kids.
And so now, we're looking at another 70
million Gen Y people.
LEO PARENTE: So a new bubble is back.
MIKE SPINELLI: New bubble.
LEO PARENTE: Not only do they not care about the Beatles.
They may not care about the old Mustang.
MIKE SPINELLI: They don't care about the old Mustang.
And, in fact, that's the point of the Wall Street Journal
article is that--
LEO PARENTE: If I only read it.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly, is that Ford is ready at this
point to abandon this group because this group--
I mean, let's face it, kind of done in their
peak car-buying years.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: They may go for some other
nostalgia stuff, but--
LEO PARENTE: I always wanted to do this.
In our corporate meetings, we used to talk about the
first-time buyer program for the young kids coming out of
college, whatever.
I've always wanted to do the last-time buyers program for
the senior bubble here as it moves up.
One more final shot for a Cadillac,
and then adios [BLEEP].
MIKE SPINELLI: So apparently, Ford is ready to
bet on these people.
And the Wall Street Journal is saying that people who have
seen the 2014 Mustang say it looks like this.
LEO PARENTE: '14 or '15?
Doesn't matter.
MIKE SPINELLI: Late '14 into '15 model year.
You're right.
The Evos concept that we saw in Frankfurt recently.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, it's the European one,
but you know what?
Traces of Mustang, but willing to look ahead.
I mean, a very forward-looking design.
Here's the back.
So the thing I like about the Evos as another Mustang is
that kids--
I mean, I call them kids.
I mean, they're in their 30s now.
Like the youngest of the Gen Ys.

They're into design, a lot.
The companies know this.
They've done a lot of marketing research.
They're into design, and they're into things like Aston
Martin because Aston Martin is into the sort of purity of
design, going back to design as a way to get people in and
not as something to remind them of something in the past.
LEO PARENTE: So I'll be the contrarian.
Aston Martin may be a good example.
But it feels like what they're really into is clean design,
which is why Apple stock is at what, a bazillion
dollars right now?
So loving that type of look kind of speaks
against retro design.
I mean, this is a very--
LEO PARENTE: Pretty crisp.
And it's also very upscale-looking.
So another thing that Gen Y does is buy used luxury cars
because there's so many coming off lease.
So they're used to getting used luxury cars.
And they're not looking for an economy car that looks like an
economy car.
They're looking for a car that looks like a car that would
compete with the BMW or Audi.
LEO PARENTE: I've always argued for that mindset.
I've always wondered why someone would buy something
like a Toyota Yaris when they could buy something with more
style and look.
And some of the new small cars--
and Hyundai, I guess, is a little bit of a poster child.
They're putting style at every price point.
So design, style, that type of mindset, that speaks well for
a car like this as a Mustang, right?
Is that what you're saying?
MIKE SPINELLI: I think you're totally right.
Both of us sit through a lot of marketing presentations.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, pretty much like this.
MIKE SPINELLI: Where car companies throw up a
presentation and talk for an hour about Generation Y. And
they're aggressive, and they're
this, and they're that.
And at the end of the day, they come out with a car that
doesn't look like anything that anybody I know of that
age would ever buy.
LEO PARENTE: I've got to tell you.
It's scary, because I think a lot of the decision makers are
still not in touch with the generation.
And that may be why you get some of the cars you get.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, the thing is they think they're--
LEO PARENTE: And I know they've got young designers
and kids coming up through the team and system, but trust me.
At the end of the day, some of the executives we prop up and
speak to, their mindset is a different generation.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, and they're also really heavily
driven by market research.
Now, for all of that market research--
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, yeah, and then they start--
MIKE SPINELLI: They do things like social media, and they go
after all this social media stuff.
But I think that this thing shows that Ford actually does
get that making a car that looks like an Aston Martin is
good for business.
I mean, in terms of Mustang.
That Mustang doesn't have to be--
LEO PARENTE: So you're attaching
this to Aston Martin.
I'm attaching it to they're willing to let the history go.
Keep Henry I in the ground.
Move forward.
LEO PARENTE: Forget Lee Iacocca.
Forget the old Mustang.
And make new Mustang be a new definition.
LEO PARENTE: Which, by the way, why not?
MIKE SPINELLI: An aspirational thing, right?
LEO PARENTE: Well, just something different.
MIKE SPINELLI: And look at all the cars that Mustang is
competing with, right?
We were just talking about them.
Audi BMW, used.
I mean, a couple of years old, pre-owned.
LEO PARENTE: Oh, I see what you're saying.
MIKE SPINELLI: So you've got old cars coming off lease that
they're competing with too.
LEO PARENTE: And I'm hearing that technically this car is
going to be progressive, as well.
It's not just a restyle on an old body.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's the next topic.
Right, exactly.

Everybody talks about the live axle being an issue.
LEO PARENTE: Have we heard whether they're going to do
something about that?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, I would imagine that this is going to
address the axle issue pretty dead-on with an IRS.
I mean, there's no reason that they wouldn't do an
independent rear on this thing.
And I would be surprised if they don't do power from some
type of eco-boost twin turbo V6.
LEO PARENTE: They'll probably have a V8 for the heritage
people just to create a transition, but--
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, they would need a transition.
That's a good point.
That's a little wonky, but you're right.
They would need a transition thing, because, I mean, what
about people that drag race and stuff?
Because they love the live axle.
I mean, personally, I don't care whether they ever have
another drag-racing Mustang.
There are plenty of old cars that can drag.
I mean, I sound like a snob.
And I'm wearing an NHRA shirt.
LEO PARENTE: Our new sponsor.
MIKE SPINELLI: But leave it to the Challenger at this point.
LEO PARENTE: The Wally Parks edition?
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, exactly.
Maybe leave it to the Challenger at this point and
let Mustang become a sports car.
LEO PARENTE: They're talking about making that
car smaller, too.
I think, honestly, I think it's going to be fun to watch
Dodge and Chevy and figure out if they're going to chase a
new look or they're going to hold on to their heritage.
Because so far, they've clung to it like--
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, it's all about timing.
So when are they going to abandon the baby boomers and
embrace Generation Y, specifically?
And don't forget.
The other bad news is that Gen Y has always said that they're
not really into cars that much.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, well, someone's talking about 16,000
annual sales, so--
There you go.
LEO PARENTE: So what was the point?
MIKE SPINELLI: So what was the point?
Should nostalgia and heritage design and heritage car
marketing go away?
Are you guys ready to see brand-new stuff, 100%, no more
PT Cruisers and no more SS cars?
LEO PARENTE: I'm at Long Beach, and it's dinnertime.
And I'm in some sushi bar in Long Beach.
And they're playing Credence Clearwater Revival, OK?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, they call it a revival for a reason.
Well, my point is, new songs, but it seems like the kids
still love the old stuff.
So our question literally is, are you wanting Mustang to
move on and be something new and fresh?
Or do you want it to cling to its history because you like
the throwback stuff more than we know?
Kids still listen to Zeppelin.
They're also listening to other
things that aren't Zeppelin.
But anyway.
LEO PARENTE: What the hell is this?
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, wait a minute.
So I wanted to wrap up today by--
LEO PARENTE: Is this the new Mustang?
MIKE SPINELLI: This is not the new Mustang.
I wanted to point out that Lada, the Russian automaker,
is discontinuing the 2107 after like, 80 years.
Will I get my deposit back?
MIKE SPINELLI: Speaking of nostalgia, this was a Fiat
that they licensed.
I mean, it's like a Fiat 124 from like the '60s that
they've been building forever.
LEO PARENTE: This is not--
using the Third World countries, is this nostalgia?
MIKE SPINELLI: Max, jump up one.
Because I wanted to show you that there is some enthusiasm
behind the Lada 2107.
LEO PARENTE: Wow, Volkswagen Polo for WRC looks a lot
different than I thought.
But anyway, farewell to nostalgia.
Farewell to the Lada 2107.
LEO PARENTE: Wait a minute.
Did you see the Go Pro?
MIKE SPINELLI: There's a Go Pro.
That's what I'm saying.
The kids did the Go Pros
Anyway, that's Road Testament for today.
Hit us up on DRIVE.
Subscribe to that.
Subscribe to us on YouTube.
And we will see you next week.
LEO PARENTE: And turn in your taxes, if you haven't already.
MIKE SPINELLI: By the way, also answer that question.
Do you want new cars or--
Or you want the retro--
LEO PARENTE: Because that New York Jets
throwback uniform sucks.