Vegans, vegetarianos e o Gary Yourofsky (English subtitles)

Uploaded by Pirulla25 on 11.02.2012

Hi Everyone! This is yet another of my videos here on the internet
Ok, so this video is going to create some controversy
I hope that this time I'm properly understood
because this video is a necessary response
to my PREVIOUS video that I made
discussing the talk from vegan Gary Yourofsky
Well, I knew i was walking into a mine field
and that I was going to be blungeoned with this video
because this is a subject area that tends to make people very agitated when discussing it
But I was agitated as well. Why was I agitated?
Because I saw someone saying BULLCRAP about my area of work
I work with biological evolution
And the guy was saying a lot of wrong things
and people came to tell me they didn't understand why I got so nervous.
So imagine this: You're an engineer
and somebody comes along, from the area or a lay person, whatever.
this person comes as says "The supporting beams of a building can be made of styrofoam"
You wouldn't get agitated?
knowing that this person is saying this to anyone that will listen
and CONVINCING people of this absurd?
I got extremelly angry!
I got as agitated as I get when I watch a talk on criationism
By the way, I'll make a series of video on the criationist arguments. Wait for it.
My agitation (to repeat myself)
Was not against vegetarians! Was not against vegans!!
My agitation was against what Baldy McBaldeson specificaly was saying
I was very happy that staright away the first viewings of my video
received super positive feedback
In fact I counted the numbers of reviews I got
both good and bad
and of the positive ones, at least 30 reviews (from different people)
were from vegetarians and vegans that agreed with me
and understood what I was saying.
That there are GOOD arguments to be vegetarians
and you don't need to use false arguments.
Unfortunately, I received a lot more than 30 reviews from people saying that
that I was showing off, that I'm a coward, a murderer, blood thirsty
heartless, dirty, that I have no feelings, the slag of humanity, a source of sadness
that I should shut up and not criticise SAINT Gary Yourofsky
who was doing something to change the world
not to mention straight forward crusing that I won't go into in details
be honest. Who criticised me in these words
Didn't pay attention to my video. That is IF they watched my video in the first place.
You know? I still imagine the scene of people that can't listen to criticism
that see I'm starting to disagree with them and
"lalalalala, I can't hear you; lalalalalala, I can't hear you"
You know. this has a name, it's called FANATISM
and EVERY type of fanatism is bad
I got very scared by some of the reviews
from vegetarians
like this: there was a girl that left me a review very clearly saying
If he is completely right or wrong it's not the case. It doesn't matter.
Guys, LOOK AT THIS. These people truly believe that the ends justify the means!
That lying for a cause is valid because the cause is noble.
I agree that there is intolerance from both sides
also from meat eaters against vegetarians
I'm not saying that the food industry doesn't use similar arguments
to justify the consumption of meat.
They do it as well.
But that doesn't justify vegans doing the same
If you act like your enemy, you're not unlike him.
There was a vegan lady that wrote a review of my video
on facebook...I read it, couldn't comment because I wasn't her friend
and unfortunately later I lost the text, can't remember where it is, anyway, a shame.
But basically her text said that she used Gary Yourofsky's arguments
but confessed that she never took time to make sure a lot of them where true
She simply used them
because these where the arguments important to convince
the insensitive, the heartless, those that couldn't simply understand that
that for ethical reasons you shouldn't eat meat,
something that for her is obvious.
I'm going to talk a little bit about this "obvious" in another video.
she didn't see ANY problem in using WRONG arguments
to defend a cause!!!
you know, one thing is for you to be an activist, another is for you to be BLIND
You know? Some people acused me of owning a meat locker!
These people didn't understand ANYTHING of what I said.
There was one guy, I'll even name him: @mberthosilva
that called me a bunch of things
and in the end he even said: "You'll die of cancer due to your diet"
DONE!! that was the only thing missing for vegetarianism/veganism to become religion
if you saw my other video on example of intolerance against ateism
you saw the sheer number of intolerant religious people
wishing CANCER to those that don't agree with them!
By the looks of it that's how you caractherize a religion fanatic
when they start wishing cancer on others
This sentence proves how many vegetarians and vegans see their cause
as a religion
which doesn't accept criticism and can't be debated.
another one, someone named @antonietalima
is hoping for me to get clogged arteries and die soon
and let Gary Yourofsky speak freely without interruption
Believe me, with this angry, diseased, speach you will get more
believers and fanatics to join you.
but thanks to this fanatism, instead of reaching the entire population
you're going to create an "against" team.
A bunch of people angry with your arguments
and you'll split society in two, you won't unite everyone
because that's what religion does, and that's what some of you are doing.
you know? You can't defend a cause with lies and distortions.
And most of all you can't think lies and distortions are OK!!!
Well, beyond the extrems of people that agreed with me and people that just cursed at me
there was a lot of people questioning my arguments
this video that I'm doing is to explain these arguments
ok, let's get going.
Here I have to give some credit because I really was a little mistaken in my previous video
Gary said, in his original sentence, that being vegan completely eliminates cholesterol from your diet
and that's true. Cholesterol is a molecule of animal origin
FACT! Only animals have it.
we are animals, so we naturaly have cholesterol.
cholesterol is part of cell membranes.
All your cells have cholesterol.
and all of them produce a minimum of cholesterol.
Only a few of the cells in your body produce more cholesterol than the others.
namely liver cells.
I'm going to accept here the classic opinion, ok?
Low density cholesterol is bad, it's the ones that cloggs arteries, gives you heart attack, stroke, etc.
in my other video I gave the example of frying in vegetable oil.
which is bad because raises your cholesterol
This is a FACT. But not because you ingest cholesterol.
but because when you fry things in partially hidrolized vegetable oil
for example soy oil which most people use to fry potates for french fries
You're ingesting Trans fat. THIS fat, your lovely liver,
transforms in cholesterol.
bad cholesterol.
Clogging your arteries
meaning, it ends the same.
Then someone came to tell me that a good vegan doesn't eat fried food
This Gary DIDN'T say in his talk.
I went to read on it and saw that if you substitute soy oil for sunflower oil
you solve that problem, you cut trans fat.
Let's be honest, come on...what a sad life without fried food...
you kow, no meat I can do, but no fried food....
no way.
2 - violence is natural
Many said that i put too much value on the fact that Gary said meat eaters eat meat
as if it's natural to consume violence and death.
But the fact is violence IS natural!
It's not desireable, it might even not be correct
but it is NATURAL.
just like the rape example in my other video on ateist morality
the way that the lion treats the gazelle IS VIOLENT
Why do I say it's violent? Because if you transfer
what is happening between the lion and the gazelle to humans
in any interpretation, that would be violent
You can be pacifist, but you can't deny the existence of violence in the natural world!
so, go defend that with other words.
3 - Meat is bad for you
First of all: in no point of my previous video
did I say we are carnivores
I said we are OMNIVORES.
and even said that meat is not the base of our diet.
or, at least, shoudn't be.
we should eat more vegetables than meat.
and even explained the reason we can't be restrict carnivores
You can't do that, it's a phisiological problem
excluding places where you have no other option aside from meat
like the eskimos, or people living in Patagonia
any nutritionist will tell you
that to improve your health you have to eat more vegetables!
red meat has more fat and so if worse for your health.
I never denied this!!
But vegetarians talk a lot about white meat.
birds, fish and sea food.
non of this is read meat, non of this has excess fat.
now, part of the bad effect associated with white meat, and red meat as well,
is the huge quantity of antibiotics (sometimes hormones) that are given to the animals for them to grow faster
to make them fatter, or something else.
Therefore, the big problem is not in the ingestion of meat
the problem is in how we produce our food today.
the majority of plants we eat today are transgenics
are produced using tones and tones of agrotoxics and pesticides
that are VERY bad for your health.
there are studies saying that non-hodkings limphoma
which Giannechini (Brazilian actor) and Dilma has (Brazilian president)
are associated, in a lot of cases, to exposure to pesticides and fertilizers.
Someone that is vegeterian BECAUSE of health
must also restrict himself to organic vegetables
He can't eat any vegetable that was produced
in large scale by current agricultural methods.
But the whole world can't do that.
That is impossible. In fact, the only reason we didn't starve to death
was because of the green revolution, the agricultural revolution that started in the begining of the 20th century
Then started the large scale agricultural production.
if you defend veganinsm SOLELY
listen closely: SOLELY
because meat is bad for your health
then you also have to cut large scale agricultural production
and if you're also against it, you can't criticise
the guy that has a little vegetable patch in his garden
and also has a few chickens
that he'll kill on the weekend to make some grilled chicken and potatoes
if you, even after listening to my argument, still think it's wrong to eat chicken
then I'm sorry but you veganinsm is not defended because of health.
It's defended by other arguments!
4- On asthma and the other diseases in his family
the guy said his family had a bunch of diseases
say "all you have to do is look at everyone's family"
that have a lot of diseases. He associated ALL of these diseases to the consumption of meat
although later he says some of them can be due to environmental pollution.
A lot of people told me that
it's true: asthma is associated in some cases
to a reaction to dairy products.
But that's not the only cause!
Gary didn't specify if his mother's asthma is due to dairy ingestion
and that makes all the difference for his argument.
because it seems like he's saying "stop eating meat and ALL your diseases will disapear"
and that's a lie!
For example, the development of diabetes really can have something to do with consumption
of foods of animal origins.
But also to the abusive consumption of sugar!
just like hypertension can have something to do with eating foods of animal origin
but can also be due to excess consumption of salt.
therefore, blaming the consumption of meat for all the evils of humanity
is not just generalisation and being simplistic,
it's being FANATIC!
and like I said: every fanatism is bad.
5 - On us being 100% biologically herbivores
Ok, at this point in my last video I said Gary was lying
and some people came and said actually he was just mistaken
others said he was outdated
others said that wasn't the main point of his talk.
anyway, a bunch of other eufemisms.
And I ask these people: Be honest,
Do you believe in Santa Claus?
Do you really think that somebody that dedicates his entire life to the vegan cause
won't go after and study the information available on this?
This is his main subject of interest
he has ALREADY HEARD the biological evolution arguments on us being omnivores
So two options: either he didn't want to listen
"lalalalala, I can't hear you, lalalalala"
or he simply OMITS this information on purpose
because it is not adequate for the objective of his talk.
I'm sorry but, either way, I call this LYING!
To say that human beings are biologicaly 100% herbivores is LYING.
But lets break it into pieces here.
Gary said the presence of claws is exculsive to carnivores
that is WRONG
I said in my previous video that we don't have claws
because they get in the way of climbing tress
And the i gave some examples of animals that climb trees and have claws.
for example the sloth. Some people mentioned squirrels and iguanas.
all of them have claws and climb tress.
And detail: they are also herbivores.
They have claws and are herbivores.
The loss of claws in primates, inclusively in carnivores primates like Tarsier as I mentioned
(they eat insects, insects are also of animal origin, therefore it's meat)
happened due to the evolution direction this lineage took.
Primates jump across branches, have long arms.
it's not a life style like that of sloths, squirrels and iguanas.
IN THIS LINEAGE (the primates), our lineage, the loss of claws of advantegeous
due to a life style, not a dietary style.
claws appear in evolutionary history in amniotes
meaning, the group of vertebrates that have amniotic egg.
today this group is represented by reptiles, birds and mammals.
the claw is an old caractheristic, it's ancestral.
and some lineages lost the claws.
herbivore dinosaurs had claws
be it for defense, to grab onto branches...
the loss of claws in other lineages happened for other reasons.
Gary seems to say that the only herbivores that exist are hooved animals
which obviously lost their claws
but not BECAUSE they where herbiroves.
They lost their claws because of the type of locomotion they developed.
It would be the same to say, for example, that dolphins don't have claws
and therefore, they must be herbivores.
It's obvious that dolphins don't have claws
but it's for other reasons. They are aquatic animals.
Do you notice how using only the feeding argument is ridiculous?
the presence or lack there of claws does not define feeding habits.
Non of the arguments gary used in his talk had to do with herbivory.
At least not as a direct cause.
Except for one argument
'Show me your teeth and I will tell you who you are'
Said Georges Cuvier, considered father of paleontology
due to the importance of teeth in the determination of the feeding habits of animals.
and in mammals it is fundamental!
So I'm going to do this: I'm going to put down here a ruler.
in one extreme is the restrict carnivore
in the other, the restrict herbivore
and in the middle a mixture with a huge amount of intermediate forms.
everything in the middle is called omnivores by zoologists.
and so, grouping all omnivores together
is the same as putting rival football supporters on the same stand
they have nothing in common
there are levels of omnivory, each case is it's own and has to be considered independently
So I'm going to leave the scale down here for you to see while I mention animals
and I'm going to do this: I'm going to mosey to a place
that is much better for us to talk about this.
There you'll see things a little bit more practicaly.
Let's go.
Alright guys, I'm here at a place that is more appropriate for us to talk about this.
This is the Mammalogy (mammals) collection
of the Zoology Museum, of the University of São Paulo (Brazil).
I'm going to put the aknowledgements here in the video description
The people here allowed me to come in and explain using the real skulls of the animals
so it's a bit cooler.
Ok, so lets...
take a look.
You remember the scale I put down here, right?
So, this is the cranium of a panther.
A feline.
Felines are, roughtly, 100% carnivores.
They REALLY are carnivores. Restrict carnivores.
They only eat meat.
I'm going to show you their teeth
So, you can really see
that the teeth of a panther (like the teeth of any cat)
are flat on the sides
and have these cusps (these elevations seen here)
that are really tall.
as if they really were blades.
If you look at the fit with the mandible
you can see they fit as if to make a cut
see? it's a lateral cut
exactly for tearing meat.
It's a carnivore.
That thing Gary mentioned about mandible motion
is here, look; at the point where the mandible fits in.
you have this process here called pre glenoid process
and it inhibits the mandible from moving back and forth
because it has to grab the prey, lock and rip off a piece
it can't "dance" around too much.
So, this is an example
you can see here, it has ONE molar.
This is the only molar that felines have
it's tiny, ridiculous. It doesn't do anything, it doesn't chew anything.
Cool, so that's the cranium of a panther.
Now let's look at the other extreme.
Let's get a bovine skull,
so you guys can see the type of teeth they have.
It's a type of tooth that is practically continuous.
It's tall, the root goes deep
and it has these internal ridges
these bits inside the ridges are actual food bits
that got stuck in the ridges, it's basicaly a granivorous animals
Eat grass, which are tough swards that they have to chew
and are ruminants, meaning they chew all the time
that's why these teeth have to be perfect to be under friction all the time
by the contact with food.
so you can see here... that they fit perfectly against one another.
so they can do this... grind back and forth
while they chew.
these animals spend their entire lives chewing.
These two animals that i have shown, the panther and the cow,
that are in the feeding extremities
they might eventually eat something different
but that is abnormal behaviour.
I know people who's cat drink coffee, eats tomatoes
but it's not nnutritive, it's not something these guys' organisms can absorb.
they have to eat meat and not only tomatoes and coffee.
The same thing with cows. There's a video (I'm putting the link down here)
of a cow eating a chick.
But this is abnormal behaviour.
It can be due to stress,
domestication sometimes alters the animal's instinct
obviously the cat won't find ground coffee in the wild.
This is the cranium of a grey wolf.
the same species that originated domestic dogs.
The grey wolf is an animal that eats basically ONLY meat.
The base of it's diet is meat.
but he eventually eats fruit, or something else that shows up
it's not the base of it's diet.
You can see here that the majority of it's teeth
are teeth like the cat's.
Are teeth that cut,
with tall cusps
that form a cutting blade.
See? It fits into a blade.
But, it has
two flat teeth on the back of the mouth.
It has two molars
something that cats don't have.
these two molars function to chew any little something that shows up.
This is the cranium of a brazilian dog: The Maned Wolf
the grey wolf is considered less an omnivore than other dogs
This one here is more omnivore.
Moving on, this is the cranium of a Coati (Nasua nasua).
The Coati belongs to the Procyonidae family
within the order Carnivora
The order being called Carnivora
has nothing to do with diet
It has to do with the commun ancestor these animals have
They decend from a common ancestor
and the majority of them is carnivore
but that does not mean that all the animals in this order are restrict carnivores
and it also doesn't mean that there aren't carnivores OUTSIDE of this order
It's just a name, a name that can cause confusion.
Let's take a look at the teeth of the Coati.
Compare them to the teeth of cats and dogs.
look at the quantity of flat teeth at the back of the mouth
(the molars) that they use to chew
Coatis eat everything: it eats eggs, small rodents,
small lizards, plants, fruit, leaves
it'll eat your sandwich if you let it.
It has the apparatus to chew, AND to cut.
it has these front teeth that cut
and the teeth in the back, chew.
Got it?
Let's get another animal that is a classic omnivore.
The bear.
This skull I think belongs to a Black bear, or a Grizzly bear.
The bear is omnivore by definition.
except for exception such as the Polar bear and the Giant panda
which are other extremes.
The bear dentition is very different.
Look at the difference from the panther to the bear
Can you see how the bear's teeth are flatter and thicker than the teeth of a panther?
The panther's teeth are for cutting,
the bear's teeth are for chewing.
Why? Because bears eat everything.
The bear fishes, eats small animals that it can hunt
eats insects, fruits, gramineas, seeds, honey
and so on, the bear can have a very varied diet.
The bear is so much an omnivore
that you can see their pre glenoid process is pratically flat
that means the bear can have
more movement of the jaw.
It's not a lot of movement, but it has this movement.
different from the cat, for example, that has a lock here
That thwarts it from chewing
So now lets go to another extreme.
lets get another omnivore but that belongs to the same order of the cow
of the bovines
called Artiodactyla: the even toed ungulates.
The pig.
The pig! This is a domestic pig.
A tiny head.
The domestic pig is an omnivore.
even people from the country side will say how dangerous it is.
when you have pack of queixada or cateto, which are wild pigs from Brazil
because they really are dangerous.
They'll knock you over, walk over you
They have these tusks (teeth) they use to kill, and
can eat as well.
they eat dead animals, eat eggs,
small live animals even,
they eat fruits, vegetables, roots,
they eat everything.
Let's look at their teeth.
This is the domestic pig. I'll show the upper part.
look at the number of flat teeth it has
it has a lot more molars than the carnivores
pig's teeth are so similar to human teeth
that in some archeological digs
that archeologists have dificulty saying if isolated teeth belong to humans or pigs.
That how alike our teeth are to pig's teeth.
And pigs teeth are flat, with these cusps
(these round bits on top of the teeth)
made to chew
are very similar to the teeth of the bear!
Take a look. Can you see?
Very similar to the teeth of the bear
which is an animal that belongs to the order Carnivora
meaning, they come from two animals groups of different evolutionary origins
and developed simillar feeding habits.
and therefore, has similar teeth.
So, to finish off...
I got a primate example
so we can show what happens to our group.
we have a little head here, a lot like the head of a tiny human
of a little person. This is the head of a capuchin monkey
You can see it has a flat face, with large eyes
the head, the cranium is very round.
Let's see what the capuchin monkey's teeth look like.
The capuchin monkey has flat, thick teeth just like ours.
it has larger canines, but why? Because their canines are for more than to just eat meat.
This is a big error of people that defend the consumption of meat
they say we are carnivores because we have canines.
That's a lie. In reality, canines serve to hold fruit
Imagine you're climbing a tree. You can't hold fruit in one hand
and climb with the other. You put the fruit in your mouth
hold it with the canines
and then your hands are free.
it also serves in defence, fights among males, etc
I if were a blood thirsty carnivore
and wanted to only mention arguments against vegetarians
I'd ignore this argument.
But I'm not! I'm even saying that this is a WRONG argument
used by people attacking vegetarians
The interesting thing to show in the mouth of this animal is
it has teeth like ours.
The capuchin monkey feeds on the exactly the same things we do.
it eats a lot of insects (that means: products of animal origin)
it eats fruit (of course, it's the base of its diet)
It eats seeds, it'll eat any small animal it will come across
therefore, it is an OMNIVORE!
Well, guys, this is more or less what I wanted to show you
here in the mammal collection of the Zoology Museum of the University of Sao Paulo
now lets go back to finish the talk.
There are even cases of canibalism between chimpanzees
They only don't hunt more often becaus it's a lot of work.
Hunting takes work. The fruit are much easier to catch.
Most likely that was the feeding habit of the primate ancestor
based on the fact that most primates feed in this manner.
and the fact that the dentition of most primates is pretty much the same.
to maintain an omnivore diet, a broad range.
us humans are biologically 100% OMNIVORES
anyone that says the oposite is either mistaken
or is fooling others.
And at last, Gary's challenges
with that thing of leaving the baby inside a crib with an apple and a bunny rabbit
it's going to eat the apple and play with the bunny.
we have zero hunt instinct, and therefore we'll only play eat the apple.
I stuck back his argument saying the baby doen's know anything
the baby won't eat the bunny rabbit, but it won't eat the apple either
and that if is was an animal or a fruit that was small enough to fit in the baby's mouth
it most likely would manage to eat it.
children put everything in their mounth anyway! His challenge is so absurd
that it would be the same thing if I tried to prove we're carnivores
and telling Gary to go eat 10 kilos of grass on a field.
But then people come and say "Oh, but he was being sarcastic."
I'm sorry, his challenge is not sarcastic.
It's very easy to defend him by saying it's just sarcasm.
he even asked, in a side joke of his,
that if anyone found a baby that ate the bunny rabbit
to give him a call right away.
Well, I'm going to ask if any of you have his number
because last week I saw a case of an one year old in Israel
that bit off the head of a snake Ok, he didn't eat the snake,
perhaps because the parents stoped him in time.
But the snake hadn't bitten the child! So it wasn't self defense!
The snake was simply slithering by, the baby grabbed it and crunch crunch crunch.
and ended up tearing its head off
Was that because we're carnivores?
No. it's because it's a CHILD! Children do these things!
"Ahhhh, Pirula, but your argument is also fallacious"
oh, ok, you don't agree?
So I'm going to say that actually I was being sarcastic. There.
I'm forgiven right?
Isn't that how it works?
To wrap this up, I wanted to say something very curious. I received a personal message
from an youtube user that I'm not going to name
deeply begging me to delete my answer video to Gary Yourofsky.
he said that thanks to my video, two people that he knew
had quit vegetarianism
or had abandoned the thought of becoming vegeterians,
and that therefore my video was having negative effects.
He even mentioned environmenal factors,
called me a hypocrite, said that I did the video about Belo Monte (Hydroelectric plant in Brazil)
and now I'm defending meat consumption
and so on. I don't defend the consumption of meat.
I only attack wrong arguments!
In fact, I was going to make a video about with the GOOD arguments for vegetarianism and veganism
because a lot of people had asked me to do it.
I ended up not making it because I thought the fanatics deserved a more urgent answer.
So, because of that, I have a couple of things to say to those two people.
If you supposedly abandoned vegeterianism because of my video
Guys, if you were vegetarians ONLY
because of the arguments that Gary Yourofsky mentioned
the best thing you did was abandoning the cause.
That's exactly what happens when a cause is supported by lies.
Why? Because when the truth comes out the people get disappointed and give it up.
But the person that contacted me said the fault was mine!
The fault's who dreams up lies!!! It's this baldy's fault!!
You friends that gave up on vegeterianism should have, instead of just watching my video,
looked up other sources
informed themselves better.
is they were vegeterians just due to the biological reason
and didn't properly research other reasons
I'm sorry, they were either already hypocrites
and going back to eating meat was the last straw to to finish with their incongruity,
or they were IDIOTS and didn't understand a single thing from my video.
I'm sorry, there is no other explanation.
In my last video I didn't tell anyone to quit vegeterianism.
and only said Gary was presenting WRONG reasons to be a vegeterian.
You know? I'm not a master to be followed, a guru, some messiah holder of all truth
I incentivize people, or at least I try to incentivize poeple
to read, to inform themselves, to research
to do this on their own!
to go after things!!
Now, to say it's my fault that they gave up being vegeterians
it's wanting to rid yourself of the responsabilities for your actions
and throw them over someone else.
Ok everyone. that's what I had to say
I didn't talk about the ethical matters here because I'll make another video for that, ok?
Cool? Ok, this was what I had to say.