Illobrand Ludwiger is chairman of the MUFON-CES,
the Central European group.
As a former systems analyst of the German Aerospace
he is an expert in everything that flies.
In 1966 he was part of the launch team of the Euro-missile ELDO.
Today he is one of the few scientists who have given up their incognito,
given the clarity of the UFO phenomenon.
How did you ultimately come about to deal with UFOs?
The interest in space was because my father in 1932 was together with
Robert Nebel and Wernher von Braun, and he worked as the only physicist in Berlin who had been working on liquid rockets.
Of course I had a lot of literature handed down from my father,
who, as of 1938, when I was six months old already died, but the literature was still there
and now my interest in space has also grown,
but the jet propulsion that our rockets fly with can't be enough
to conquer outer space with such a little primitive propulsion method
and we physicists all agree that we should develop new means of propulsion, that is field propulsions
to reach distant stars or planets that are present at distant stars.
1977 the Americans made the proposal
to form a group in Germany, where only academics examine
what it is that we call UFOs. So i accepted, as it seemed interesting.
I then gathered some physicists, mathematicians and space scientists, and later doctors, psychologists to examine what it is that is behind UFOs, because it seemed interesting to me.
Also Historians and other professionals and we have tried to identify this phenomenon for now.
First, we wanted to know ourselves: "Is there something to it? Are the things that people tell, real?
Are there physical interactions? Is it really a physical phenomenon? "
Over time, this became certainty, and the question now is only "What is it and why isn't it examined?"
At that time there were of course also other theories,
C. G. Jung, a psychologist, said it could be mental projections,
which has been disproved very quickly because of the fact that
objects such as in France could be pursued on a given day from one point to another,
So one could draw a geographical line where all these objects were seen on the map
But Hallucinations do not move on straight geographical lines.
Then it became clear that these objects interact with the environment,
they burn trees when they are just above the treetops.
There is also radioactive radiation, X-ray radiation, there are extremely high magnetic field strengths up to a million-fold magnet field strength of the earth
around these objects and all this does not look as if they are hallucinations.
If one assumes that these objects, which move in an intelligent way (you simply need to read a few of these reports to become aware of this fact), then you realize that this is not a natural phenomenon
So when someone sits in it, it's as if they are not interested in us,
our monuments, our vegetation, he knows everything already. It's as if he comes here from the Earth itself
But we don't know this technology yet. It looks as if someone came out of our own future. The behavior is just like that.
Now there were many years where we said: "Because of the time paradoxes that can not be true. If one comes from the future he can murder his own grandfather, then he couldn't exist at all."
that was about ten years ago the idea of it.
But since the last ten years, the physicists found that these paradoxes do not really exist
Hawking, Kip Thorne and other physicists have the opinion that we should already have visitors from our own future.
Strangely, they do not come up. Stephen Hawking said "Maybe there are even UFOs, but they would have to be much more common." Well, he does not know how often these objects are actually observed.
And I am of the opinion that if one concludes from the behavior of these objects that we have visitors from our own future.
It may even be possible that in the future, in ten to twenty thousand years, wherever they may come from, it has become possible to develop small robots.
I have spoken with Hans Moravec about this, the robot specialist in Pittsburgh
that these robots represent these little creatures that we always see.
They come with those "normal" people that often come out of these objects.
So they are no beings from other stars, but they are yet, because in the future
perhaps in 20,000 years, these robots populate Mars and the moon
and may be the come back to earth from Mars and the Moon, which means they fly into their own past.
One could imagine, everyone is right:
UFOs come from earth, they come from the future and they come from other planets.
What have you discovered in your research?
What we have done: First, we have detected, by hundreds
or at least more than a hundred witnesses over the years, we have reports from Germany.
These are all unexplained reports, there are over 450 now.
What could be explained fits in one folder, but the other things are still peppered with reports that we can not explain.
So there is something. And now what is most interesting about all this is: we haven't studied where it comes from. Must we be prepared for an invasion?
but instead we have examined the phenomenon in a very pragmatic way: What are the physical interactions and how can we explain,
why such an object must have this crazy strong magnetic fields around them. How that is to be measured, that's another thing
There are different methods for how to get to these measurements. Or why should there necessarily be a rotating ring around these objects.
There are of course not only these disk-like, there are spheres and pyramidal and spindle-shaped.
It is a whole armada of shifting forms what we encounter there.
But the most common are these discs, and one can always find the same physical effects.
Why does the air to the edge glow? If you put all this together we have our theoretical physicist. We have several professors in our group who work under a pseudonym, of course
There are no official UFOs and who is engaged in this is a crank, so you have to do all this carefully.
The truth is not realized by itself. One only believes what reinforces their own prejudices
and something new is not accepted so easily.
Especially regarding the physical interactions you come to theories, for example, to other theories
on the Einstein gravity. With Einstein gravity you would have to bring a whole planet to vibrate until it generates gravitational radiation.
The repeal of gravity is actually impossible for the general theory of relativity.
And yet, these objects can and do that so you have to search for such theories, which are a little unusual
And we have dealt with all sorts of theories, including string theory and quantum loop theory,
but there is a theory that predicts something that, with extremely strong magnetic fields,
where masses rotate, that you get a boost.
And so you can gradually get from what you see and try to improve the theory,
figure it out, as what the space propulsion might look like. And this has been achieved in recent years very effectively.